"Putting is a huge part of the game."

[MrGolfguy67]

i've answered the two games questions with my real honest answer, i'm sorry you're not satisfied with that. And i'm not close minded, that is just what you have chosen to label me thinking that if you keep pounding it, and pounding it, and pounding it with every post you make it will somehow become true. Sorry. 

 

[iacas]

:sigh:

You didn’t answer the questions. You side stepped answering them.

Same question but from 6000 yards. Who wins in Game 1? By how many?

You’ve not yet demonstrated that you’re capable of being open minded. Meanwhile you have said things like…

8 hours ago, MrGolfguy67 said:

And I know the facts, better than you could ever imagine.

Still waiting for the slightest shred of evidence there.

[CR McDivot]

So Rory's hot putter had nothing to do with his last win?

[Vinsk]

3 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

So Rory's hot putter had nothing to do with his last win?

So his drives and approach shots didn’t? Putting is not being touted as insignificant. There can be rounds where putting saves or ruins a round. But for the masses and the game of golf predominantly it is ball striking that affects ones score by quite a large margin.

[iacas]

Just now, Vinsk said:

So his drives and approach shots didn’t? Putting is not being touted as insignificant. There can be rounds where putting saves or ruins a round. But for the masses and the game of golf predominantly it is ball striking that affects ones score by quite a large margin.

This, @CR McDivot.

[CR McDivot]

I agree that ball striking is huge, but in Rory's case I believe his ball striking was merely competitive with the field.

His putting won it!

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

I agree that ball striking is huge, but in Rory's case I believe his ball striking was merely competitive with the field.

His putting won it!

He gained strokes on the field with his ball striking too. His putting helped.

Hell, his proximity on Sunday was 1st at something like only 24’.

[Vinsk]

10 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

I agree that ball striking is huge, but in Rory's case I believe his ball striking was merely competitive with the field.

His putting won it!

Rory gained 2.5 strokes per round with his putting. Ranked 1 on that. Ok. How? Well...he also was number one in proximity to the hole. He hit 12...12 approach shots that were 21’ or less. He also was top ranked in driving. 

[CR McDivot]

OK, we are all entitled to our own perceptions.

How many 1 or less putts did our favorite Irishman have? How many from less than 50% make range?

The Ror's was hot! I was happy to see it.

Average putting has the potential to account for 36 strokes - Great putting could cut that in half!

[onthehunt526]

On 3/26/2018 at 9:43 PM, MrGolfguy67 said:

Putting is a huge part of the game, you can be a wizard with the irons but if you can't get the ball in the hole...

Putting is not.

Bullshit.

Don't give me that. 

Putting is a relatively simple motion, that people seem to overemphasize way too much. Bubba has never been a "great" putter.

But who cares, he's fun to watch. He actually I think by TOUR standards... Bubba is either about average or just slightly below average is stroke gained putting.

The two biggest parts and/or statistics to look at:

1. Strokes Gained on All Approaches (or old school me Greens In Regulation)

2. Strokes Gained Driving (or old school total driving)

It's not that putting isn't important. It is. But it's really not a huge part of the game. Just because Bubba misses one 12 foot birdie putt... Doesn't mean he's a terrible putter. The make percentage on 12 foot putts on tour: 31%. You're expected to miss 2 out of 3 or almost 7 out of 10 from 12 feet.

Nah. Ball Striking is a "HUGER" Part of The Game, (than putting).

[Vinsk]

9 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

OK, we are all entitled to our own perceptions.

How many 1 or less putts did our favorite Irishman have? How many from less than 50% make range?

The Ror's was hot! I was happy to see it.

Average putting has the potential to account for 36 strokes - Great putting could cut that in half!

The actual topic is the importance of putting vs ball striking, not Rory’s round on Sunday. But again, think about it: What would being hot with the putter matter if Rory was sinking those putts to save par or bogey? Even the poorest putter out there doesn’t usually 4 putt. Sure it happens but not common. But how often does a golfer arrive to the green laying 4 or 5? Pretty damn common. Penalties occur from poor drives and approach shots, OB, hazards, chunks, slices, hooks...none which occur from a poor putt. Rory pitted great. But he also gave himself much better opportunities on the green by his fantastic ball striking. His ball strikng wasn’t just ‘competitive for the field’ he dominated it. The rest of the field wasn’t putting awful, they just didn’t have the opportunities that Rory had because they didn’t have 12 approach shots within 21’ in round 4.

[CR McDivot]

As you can see I am coming from the perspective of a high handicap. Sure, hitting more GIR would help, and I am gradually improving in this area. However, bringing my putts per round to under 36 (more 1 putts than 3 jacks) has realistically had more effect on my scores than the long game. FIR average has been steady at better than 75%, GIR sadly only 23%. If my putting is off - I'm screwed!

[Vinsk]

More 1 putts? So you’re practicing 20-30’ putts? How did you increase your 1 putts? Did you hit your approach shots closer? 

Are you telling me you’re a high handicapper because despite hitting most GIR you just can’t seem to putt in less than 3-4 strokes to finish?

I offer you 2 scenarios. Which would you score better?

1. I’ll give you no more than 2 putts every hole. So once you’re on the green you’re guaranteed 2 putts or less.

2. I’ll put you on every green in regulation but you have to putt out. 

What do you think?

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Vinsk

[onthehunt526]

7 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

More 1 putts? So you’re practicing 20-30’ putts? How did you increase your 1 putts? Did you hit your approach shots closer? 

Are you telling me you’re a high handicapper because despite hitting most GIR you just can’t seem to putt in 3-4 strokes to finish?

I offer you 2 scenarios. Which would you score better?

1. I’ll give you no more than 2 putts every hole. So once you’re on the green you’re guaranteed 2 putts or less.

2. I’ll put you on every green in regulation but you have to putt out. 

What do you think?

 

I'd rather have the latter, I'd probably shoot something stupid like 66.

[CR McDivot]

2 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

More 1 putts? So you’re practicing 20-30’ putts? How did you increase your 1 putts? Did you hit your approach shots closer? 

Are you telling me you’re a high handicapper because despite hitting most GIR you just can’t seem to putt in 3-4 strokes to finish?

I offer you 2 scenarios. Which would you score better?

1. I’ll give you no more than 2 putts every hole. So once you’re on the green you’re guaranteed 2 putts or less.

2. I’ll put you on every green in regulation but you have to putt out. 

What do you think?

 

23% GIR is not "most" - more like less than 1/4... but yes I do practice >20 footers. Concentrate mostly on under 10 footers. I am a high handicapper because my approaches are typically near misses with mid to long irons (blame it on my age and only playing 20 or so rounds a year).

Scenario #1 with 36 puts and 25% GIR = +12 Make those missed GIRs one chip and one putt = even!

Scenario #2 all GIR and 36 putts = even. Cut half the two putts to one = -9.

Silly scenarios!

[GrandStranded]

12 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

I'd rather have the latter, I'd probably shoot something stupid like 66.

This is a great thread. In one night, you guys have changed how I'm going to approach improving my game going forward. Very impressed with this.

[Shorty]

5 hours ago, MrGolfguy67 said:

Fact:  I'm new to golf, only having played for 41 years, but my best scores are when I putt well. Far & away. When you putt well you are making birdies or saving pars.

Driving good (into the fairway) guarantees nothing, you've still got to get it into the hole. Good approach shots guarantee nothing, you've still got to get it into the hole.

 

But car keys are much more important. You could be  great driver, great putter and great iron player, but if you lose your keys and can't drive to the course, you can't score.

Why do you persist in denying the obvious? Putting is very important, but getting the ball in play to start with is the foundation of good scoring. I would take a 20% improvement in driving and a 20% loss in putting ability and expect my scores to drop by 5% at the moment.

[Vinsk]

7 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

23% GIR is not "most" - more like less than 1/4... but yes I do practice >20 footers. Concentrate mostly on under 10 footers. I am a high handicapper because my approaches are typically near misses with mid to long irons (blame it on my age and only playing 20 or so rounds a year).

Scenario #1 with 36 puts and 25% GIR = +12 Make those missed GIRs one chip and one putt = even!

Scenario #2 all GIR and 36 putts = even. Cut half the two putts to one = -9.

Silly scenarios!

What are your under 10’s for? Par? Bogey? I think you’re exaggerating your ‘near misses.’ Nobody is a high handicapper because they’re a lousy putter. Think about the last time you made DB which would be often if you’re a high handicapper. Was it because you 3-4 putted? If so, did you 3 jack a 10’? No you didn’t. Do you realize the percentage a pro makes 20’ putts? 14%. And you’re practicing them so you can make more of them? Come on. If you’re ‘mostly’ near the green in regulation you’re not a high handicapper. 

@MrGolfguy67 What the hell good does it do if you’re guaranteed to make every putt under 20’ If it took you 5-6 shots to get there. 

It’s common sense. Which happens more in a round of golf:

drive OB, hazard, trees, bad lie, chunk, slice, hook, shank, blade. Or....

4 putt.

Come on....how often does a player hit a par 4 green in regulation then stomp around and 4 putt for DB? Not common.

How often does a player hit a bad drive or blow an approach shot and find themselves laying 5 on the green? Happens all the time.