What do I choose? Taylormade M3 irons or Titleist 716 Ap2 irons?

[Thaxten_Land]

I'm about to invest in a new set of irons and I have narrowed it down between two that I like, the TaylorMade M3 irons and the Titleist 716 Ap2 irons. So I need any kind of help with deciding on which one to go for. 

[dennyjones]

Details man!   Tell us a little about yourself, your game and preferences.  I'm imagining a 60 year old lady golfer...nah...help us help you.   

Why the M3 and not the M4?    Why the 716 Ap2 as opposed to something from Ping?  

 

Whatever, good luck and keep us up to date.    We love to live vicariously thru other's wallets!

[klineka]

Have you been custom fit for each? What are your yardages and spin rates with each?

What is your handicap? 

Why the 716 AP2 and not the 718 AP2?

They are two different classes of clubs too, the AP2 is more of a players iron like the P770, Callaway X forged, etc, while the M3 is more of a players-distance iron similar to the P790 and the AP3 

[BallMarker]

10 hours ago, Thaxten_Land said:

I'm about to invest in a new set of irons and I have narrowed it down between two that I like, the TaylorMade M3 irons and the Titleist 716 Ap2 irons. So I need any kind of help with deciding on which one to go for. 

What's not to like about either one?

Personally, I like the look of Titleist much more......Yeah, I'm shallow. I don't think there is any significant difference between the two.

I just replaced my MP53 with a set of Mizuno MP54s. IMHO, best looking clubs ever, other than their blades. I love the feel of them too.

Mercedes or BMW, or may I'll get an Audi?

[klineka]

8 hours ago, BallMarker said:

I don't think there is any significant difference between the two.

For one, the lofts are different. The 5 iron loft of the AP2 is 25 degrees and its 23 degree on the M3. 

Second, Some pro players like Jordan Spieth play the AP2 on tour, there isn't anyone that I'm aware of that plays the M series irons on tour. There's a reason for that. The clubs are in two completely different club categories as I mentioned in my first post on this topic.

8 hours ago, BallMarker said:

What's not to like about either one?

One thing people might not like is how "hot" the M3 can be since it is a players distance iron. Hitting a club flush and having it go 10 yards further than you expect is not a good thing when you are trying to be precise going into greens.

It all depends on the skill of @Thaxten_Land and what he wants in an iron, but its not accurate to state that there isn't a significant difference between these two clubs because there is, and that's why I recommended that he should get fit for both if he hasn't already, and take a look at the numbers and see which is the best option for both his current game and his game progressing in the future.

 

[BallMarker]

On 11/13/2018 at 7:50 AM, klineka said:

One thing people might not like is how "hot" the M3 can be since it is a players distance iron. Hitting a club flush and having it go 10 yards further than you expect is not a good thing when you are trying to be precise going into greens.

 

Ok. Fair enough. But don't all clubs go further than expected if hit "flush"?

IMO, all that number stuff doesn't mean much to us mortals. But, for professional who's livelihood depends on it, yes.

To me the most import thing of a club is the flex of the shaft.

[klineka]

9 hours ago, BallMarker said:

Ok. Fair enough. But don't all clubs go further than expected if hit "flush"?

Further than expected? No. A club should go the distance you expect when you hit it flush, not further, like many game improvement irons do. 

Here is a good article talking about it more

https://clubsg.skygolf.com/content/the+wedge+guy/5-3722-Blades_Versus_Cavity_Backs_A_Golf_Club_Epiphany.html

9 hours ago, BallMarker said:

IMO, all that number stuff doesn't mean much to us mortals. But, for professional who's livelihood depends on it, yes.

Thats ridiculous. Numbers absolutely matter for amateurs.  

9 hours ago, BallMarker said:

To me the most import thing of a club is the flex of the shaft.

There have been plenty of articles and videos on YouTube where people have shot the same score or better with a junior or women's flex shaft. The iron/clubhead itself is more important than the shaft. The loft, lie angle, sole width, CoG positioning, etc all combine to have a much greater impact on the shot outcome than the shaft flex does.

I have a mixture of anything from Regular flex irons and a 3 wood, stiff flex 3 iron and driver, and even an X stiff wedge in my bag and I still am capable of shooting in the upper 70's to low 80's on a regular basis. I could give any PGA pro my exact bag and they could still go shoot under par immediately. Shaft flex is not the most important thing of a club.  

[saevel25]

9 hours ago, BallMarker said:

Ok. Fair enough. But don't all clubs go further than expected if hit "flush"?

No.

Game Improvement irons can produce shots that do not meet expectation because of how they are designed.

9 hours ago, BallMarker said:

IMO, all that number stuff doesn't mean much to us mortals. But, for professional who's livelihood depends on it, yes.

It matters for everyone.

9 hours ago, BallMarker said:

To me the most import thing of a club is the flex of the shaft.

It shouldn't be. There is no industry standard on flex. A regular rating on one golf shaft might be an extra-stiff rating on another brand and model. To just look at a label is foolish.

 

[Foot Wedge]

9 hours ago, BallMarker said:

Ok. Fair enough. But don't all clubs go further than expected if hit "flush"?

No.  some club designs prioritize consistency over across the face forgiveness.  

9 hours ago, BallMarker said:

IMO, all that number stuff doesn't mean much to us mortals. But, for professional who's livelihood depends on it, yes.

Anyone should know what the club is going to do.  And getting the results you want from a club is good for everyone.  For example, even though I suck, I don't need clubs that maximize distance since there's no point in having a PW that carries like an 8.5 iron and leaves me with a 35 yard gap to my 50* wedge.

10 hours ago, BallMarker said:

To me the most import thing of a club is the flex of the shaft.

That's just one factor.  Weight is also important.  I carry shafts from light weight stiff flex to heavier weight regular flex.  If you mean that having the right shaft is important, then yes I agree.

[BallMarker]

1 hour ago, Foot Wedge said:

No.  some club designs prioritize consistency over across the face forgiveness.  

Anyone should know what the club is going to do.  And getting the results you want from a club is good for everyone.  For example, even though I suck, I don't need clubs that maximize distance since there's no point in having a PW that carries like an 8.5 iron and leaves me with a 35 yard gap to my 50* wedge.

That's just one factor.  Weight is also important.  I carry shafts from light weight stiff flex to heavier weight regular flex.  If you mean that having the right shaft is important, then yes I agree.

lol

When I shoot 85 instead of 75, it's because I couldn't make my putts, or couldn't hit the fairways enough....etc.

Other factors like course condition, weather and wind has more effect on my game than the numbers my clubs are spec'ed to generate.

I never heard a professional golfer say they didn't play well because of the numbers on a golf screen was off.

I bet someone like Phil, or Tiger, can take my old MP53s and still shoot 65.....because their game is 1000 times better than mine.

[rehmwa]

Trouble at the end of the year hitting my long irons.  So I tested the M3's a couple weeks ago and really liked them.  But the lofts are bent very strong vs my current clubs.  That said, the 5i, (would be a 4i in my set) was much easier to hit than my current 5i.  And the longer yardages were pretty repeatable even so.  Good to know that more forgiving clubs will be available when I ready to get new again.....and I get older.

[Foot Wedge]

24 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

lol

When I shoot 85 instead of 75, it's because I couldn't make my putts, or couldn't hit the fairways enough....etc.

Other factors like course condition, weather and wind has more effect on my game than the numbers my clubs are spec'ed to generate.

I (and most people) also agree with the old "indian not the arrow" belief.  And yeah it's common sense that you have to adjust to real world course conditions.  If I decide to play in 35* weather weather with 25 mph winds I won't be saying "damned numbers were off" when I inevitably play worse.  That's not the point I was making, I was talking about club design and playing what works best for you.  The "numbers" really just add up to what the ball does in the air.  If you're testing 3 different sets of irons and one of them is producing the best results out of the three, wouldn't it be beneficial to go with those irons?

25 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

I never heard a professional golfer say they didn't play well because of the numbers on a golf screen was off.

Yeah because they, like all humans, are capable of having a bad day.  Even with the equipment that is meticulously optimized for their needs.  Not what I was talking about.

26 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

I bet someone like Phil, or Tiger, can take my old MP53s and still shoot 65.....because their game is 1000 times better than mine.

No disagreement there, never said they couldn't.  Again, indian not the arrow and not what I was talking about.  But it's funny that you use Tiger as an example since he is one of the most detail oriented and picky when it comes to equipment. He'd probably feel weird about your driver at address and complain about hitting your irons too high all while shooting said 65.

Since we're starting to veer off topic, OP: hit them both and go with what you like.

[BallMarker]

7 hours ago, Foot Wedge said:

But it's funny that you use Tiger as an example since he is one of the most detail oriented and picky when it comes to equipment. He'd probably feel weird about your driver at address and complain about hitting your irons too high all while shooting said 65.

Like I said, to a professionals who's livelihood depends on it it may make a diffetence. At least as a confidence factor and gives them a piece of mind that they have the "best" equipment possible. But, no way they think about the numbers when they make a club choice on the course.

[Foot Wedge]

11 hours ago, BallMarker said:

But, no way they think about the numbers when they make a club choice on the course.

Sure, I agree with that.  They, and amateurs, make adjustments based on course conditions like saying "I'm against the wind, I'll club up" or "I've got a jumper lie, I'll club down", that much is obvious.  Not too much number crunching going on otherwise you'd just slow everyone down.  But again, that's not what OP or any of the responses were talking about, the topic is choosing a set of irons. 

[Groucho Valentine]

I don't have any experience with the Taylormade irons, but im not a fan of the 716 AP2. Id actually consider the 714 series AP2 if you're still waffling and want to go with the titleist brand. Its the best blend of forgiveness and playability in that iron. The product line became progressively harder to hit after the 714, regardless of what their marketing says. 

[BallMarker]

1 hour ago, Foot Wedge said:

Sure, I agree with that.  They, and amateurs, make adjustments based on course conditions like saying "I'm against the wind, I'll club up" or "I've got a jumper lie, I'll club down", that much is obvious.  Not too much number crunching going on otherwise you'd just slow everyone down.  But again, that's not what OP or any of the responses were talking about, the topic is choosing a set of irons. 

Right. So, why throw bunch of confusing numbers at him. Just get the one that feels right.

Taylormade or Titleist.....They're pretty much standard set of clubs with standard range of specs.

That's all I'm saying.

[Lihu]

On 11/12/2018 at 10:32 AM, Thaxten_Land said:

I'm about to invest in a new set of irons and I have narrowed it down between two that I like, the TaylorMade M3 irons and the Titleist 716 Ap2 irons. So I need any kind of help with deciding on which one to go for. 

Titleist!