Is This a Hole in One?

[billchao]

3 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

no - you read me wrong.  the surface of the green is where the red line intercepts at the ball side.  We are in agreement.  It's parallel to the ground at the point on the left.

I see. Yes, I misunderstood what you meant.

[rehmwa]

4 minutes ago, billchao said:

I see. Yes, I misunderstood what you meant.

thanks, here's my point - if you agree.....?

I had a hard time with the one on the left.  But as long as it's consistent and that's what the rules committees say, then the clarification works.

Edited March 28, 2019 by rehmwa

[billchao]

2 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

thanks, here's my point - if you agree.....?

I had a hard time with the one on the left.  But as long as it's consistent and that's what the rules committees say, then the clarification works.

That ball on the left isn't holed.

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, billchao said:

That ball on the left isn't holed.

I agree, and so do the guys I talked with, but that's a pretty ridiculous exaggeration. 🙂

This is a bit more realistic:

The ball isn't holed despite being both below the level of the green near the ball and the opposite margin of the hole. This is on relatively flat ground, too - the far lip could be higher if the ground was sloped that way (uphill to the far side of the cup).

The "corner" is more pronounced here than in the quarter-round image up above. 🙂

[rehmwa]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

 that's a pretty ridiculous exaggeration. 🙂

🙂

come play some of the public courses around here.....  you might change your mind - 🤨

 

[billchao]

31 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

come play some of the public courses around here.....  you might change your mind - 🤨

 

To be fair, a rounded lip usually helps you make putts.

[Benit0]

how about that one !?!

Is this embedded ball a hole-in-one? A comprehensive investigation

---

This mind-bending photo had everybody asking: Is a ball embedded in the side of the cup a hole in one? We tracked down the answer.

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Benit0

[David in FL]

3 minutes ago, Benit0 said:

how about that one !?!

Of course.  A portion of the ball is clearly below the surface of the putting green.

 

[DaveP043]

22 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Of course.  A portion of the ball is clearly below the surface of the putting green.

 

Sorry, but no.  This from the Clarifications on the definition of "holed"

Quote

Holed/1 – All of the Ball Must Be Below the Surface to Be Holed When Embedded in Side of Hole

When a ball is embedded in the side of the hole, and all of the ball is not below the surface of the putting green, the ball is not holed. This is the case even if the ball touches the flagstick.

 

[David in FL]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Sorry, but no.  This from the Clarifications on the definition of "holed"

 

Thanks.  I stand corrected.  I was unaware of that one!

[Benit0]

If you read the article, here is a resume of the answer of Thomas Pagel, the USGA’s Senior Director of the Rules of Golf

1. Embedded, not leaning against the flagstick, not fully submerged: NO ACE

2. Embedded, leaning against the flagstick, not fully submerged: NO ACE

3. Embedded, not leaning against the flagstick, fully submerged: YES ACE

4. Not embedded, leaning against the flagstick, fully or partially submerged: YES ACE

[DaveP043]

4 minutes ago, Benit0 said:

If you read the article, here is a resume of the answer of Thomas Pagel, the USGA’s Senior Director of the Rules of Golf

1. Embedded, not leaning against the flagstick, not fully submerged: NO ACE

2. Embedded, leaning against the flagstick, not fully submerged: NO ACE

3. Embedded, not leaning against the flagstick, fully submerged: YES ACE

4. Not embedded, leaning against the flagstick, fully or partially submerged: YES ACE

Its a good summary, and a decent article.  Unfortunately, we don't always have articles about each of the situations that might occur, so my preference is always to go to the Rules themselves.  As the article says, occasionally you'll have to look in a couple of different places to end up with the right answer, but following the complete trail has really helped my own knowledge of the rules, as well as helping me understand how to effectively use the rulebook.  

I have to admit, I'm pretty sure  I'd read about this specific situation sometime previously, which led me to dig a bit deeper than I otherwise might have.  But as a general rule, starting with the definition of the term (holed in this case), including the Clarifications to the definition, is a good place to start any search in the Rules.

[rehmwa]

22 minutes ago, Benit0 said:

If you read the article, here is a resume of the answer of Thomas Pagel, the USGA’s Senior Director of the Rules of Golf

1. Embedded, not leaning against the flagstick, not fully submerged: NO ACE

2. Embedded, leaning against the flagstick, not fully submerged: NO ACE

3. Embedded, not leaning against the flagstick, fully submerged: YES ACE

4. Not embedded, leaning against the flagstick, fully or partially submerged: YES ACE

So how about this -

1 - it embeds and is touching the flagstick.

2 - it appears that the top of the ball is above the level of the green.

3 - as you come up to the green, you see a duck go over and pecks at the ball and the ball gets pushed fully submerged

 

(((just kidding -18-1 . By Outside Agency/.......If a ball at rest is moved by an outside agency , there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced.)))

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by rehmwa

[billchao]

1 hour ago, Benit0 said:

how about that one !?!

Is this embedded ball a hole-in-one? A comprehensive investigation

---

This mind-bending photo had everybody asking: Is a ball embedded in the side of the cup a hole in one? We tracked down the answer.

 

As @DaveP043 pointed out, an embedded ball has to be entirely below the putting surface to be considered holed.

Can't tell for certain by the angle of the picture if that ball is holed.

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

18-1

Dashes are the old rules.

Dots are new.

[rehmwa]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

Dashes are the old rules.

Dots are new.

and they don't use the term "Dormie" any more

Major/Sweeping change......

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

and they don't use the term "Dormie" any more

Major/Sweeping change......

Your point?

And @DaveP043, you may have been thinking of this:

 

[rehmwa]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Your point?

Wry chuckle with online friends, or so I thought.  I be sure to use emoticons to express the mood of the post.