Why are Mizunos so flat?

Mizuno standard lies are at least 1* flatter than most larger manufactures' standard lies. And, that gap widens as you work down the set until a PW is 2* flatter than a Callaway.

Anyone know why? Is there something to Mizunos being traditionally "players" clubs?

I have vintage (1991-2) Mizunos and they were/are about the same as other irons from that era. I did get the lofts weakened in the 9 and PW and had the lie angles flattened for the 7-P, so maybe people who like the brand tend to prefer flatter short irons. My Cleveland short irons could be flatter. The PW for sure.

Being that Mizuno emphasized clubs for competition players (pro and amateur) at the beginning, I suspect the flatter lofts have stayed.

The more loft you have, the easier it is to get the ball up. I don't think too many Mizuno players are concerned with hitting their 7-iron 180 yards - they're more interested in being able to work the ball toward the pin.

One of the reasons long irons are becoming "harder to hit" is because the lofts are so strong. The 3i from my MacGregor MTs (1974) had a loft of 24*. This is a 5i in the Burner 2.0 set.

Dragonsrock talked about "New stronger lofts..." this morning. Mizuno was in the discussion: http://thesandtrap.com/forum/thread/47186/new-stronger-lofts

I looked up some sites, and found that - as jeffrey r said -  the SGI models have stronger lofts than GI-Players clubs.

Again, the SGIs seem to be creating lower vanity lofts , so you can hit a 7i instead of a 6i. But, it catches up with you at the lower end of the set.

My hope : a club mfgr will market a set of XYZ Classics , with a 24* 3i, and 50* PW. Then all anyone will need is a SW, and maybe one more wedge plus a hybrid at the low end.

Edit: Changed lies to lofts in first sentence.

Mizuno has been resistant to strengthen their lofts, so they are probably doing the same thing with lie angle.

Thanks for the info about stronger lofts in many new clubs. BTW, JPX-800 PW is 2* strong and the JPX-800 Pro PW is 1* strong LOFT.

I am asking about flat LIE. Why are Mizuno standard LIES flat by at least 1*?

My guess is, originally, because Japanese golfers were shorter in stature, on average. And, currently, because Japanese companies are keener on tradition, on average.

Thanks Stretch, That seems as good a guess as any. I ordered a set 1* flat before I discovered that their 1* flat was at least 2* flatter than everyone else's. I'm waiting for them to arrive (today?). I'll see if I need them bent or if they fit OK as is. I want them to fit the swing I should have and not the swing that is a compensation to create a straight flight. I do wish my fitter (Golfsmith) had shared that the standard lies are flatter than everyone else's -- I would have ordered off the self.

I think more than Mizuno being flat, I think most companies have gone more upright as their standard in the past years.  Mizuno has just stayed pat while others have moved.  Not real sure of the reasons.  Easy enough to bend or special order though.

I have no evidence, but I'd vote with Stretch's being the Occam's Razor answer.  The Japanese are, on average, shorter than those of European or African descent (ie, a very high percentage of Americans), so it seems unsurprising that the major Japanese company in golf makes clubs with slightly flatter lies.

Not to hijack the thread, but this brings up another question I've had for a while:

Why is it that taller golfers are recommended steeper lie angles, in general?  Unless taller golfers have, on average, a steeper swing, shouldn't taller golfers just get longer shafts, not steeper lie angles and longer shafts?

Personally I like being able to have a flatter spine angle (bent more at the waist), since to me it feels easier that way to have a more one plane swing without having to swing so flat, so when I can finally afford getting brand new irons that I can get fit I think I'll be more inclined to getting standard shaft lengths, even though I'm 6'2", with a slightly steeper lie angle.  But I see no reason why there shouldn't be just as many shorter golfers who prefer that setup and thus get shorter shafts with a steeper lie angle.  Is it just that too many golfers are unwilling to sacrifice even a few yards of distance in getting shorter shafts, and thus shorter golfers learn to swing flatter so they can have longer shafts?

i'm not sure....I wonder  I stance and hold grip shaft straight to club on grass, 1/2.   if shaft forward and club is too close to my right feet. will same loft angle?

sorry I hard to explain. my not good english.

But isn't their club design and R&D; done in Georgia where Mizuno Golf is HQ'ed?      But I don't have any other guesses either.