Who Pushes Off With Their Trail Leg?

[hoselpalooza]

59 minutes ago, iacas said:

It’s been explained several times in other threads. Just because someone hasn’t posted in this thread in the last 15 minutes doesn’t mean nobody has told you. Look it up for yourself.

You’re making an ass of yourself man.

i searched and didn't find anything useful. e.g. https://thesandtrap.com/search/?&q=justin thomas trail foot&search_and_or=and&sortby=relevancy

you're being ridiculous. many golfers seem to push off of the right side but you refuse to acknowledge this. 

here's jason day's description:

Quote

If you can get to the top of your swing in a similar position when you play, you're ready to fire off your right side when you start the downswing. That's good weight shift. It's a lot like how pitchers wind up and then push off their back leg to throw a fastball.

jack mentions pushing off the right side: 

Quote

...the push off my right foot at the start of the downswing...

 

and there are many other people online, pros and ams alike, who discuss getting off of the trail side by pushing with the trail foot. it's a thing people do. you may not like it or teach it but how can you disagree that it happens? because "feel ain't reel?" you're acting ignorantly. 

[iacas]

It’s not happened in the >100 PGA Tour traces I’ve seen.

Feel ain’t real. And declaring me “ignorant” doesn’t make it true.

What actual data or facts have you shared? None. Your own pressure trace (of JT) argues against you.

Now I’m done for hours as I’m going to see Loopers.

[hoselpalooza]

kisner pushes off with the trail foot.

Quote

...the pressure gets to the lead side quickly but it does start from the trail side 

 

[hoselpalooza]

4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I don't know that I can help you, or that anyone can.  If the feel of pushing off with the right foot helps you, great, keep it up.  That's how feels work, different feels work for different people.  And if you DO ever get on pressure sensors, I think we'd all love to see what actually happens in your swing.  The data would almost certainly prove someone wrong, since the disagreement is so complete.

don't even need to look at my swing. just look at kisner's swing above and listen to the analysis. 

[Pretzel]

The other way to get pressure off your right side, that you're too stubborn to realize is what's happening, is that the right side is lifting up.

The right side lifts up, while the left side does not. This results in a weight shift to the left, simple as that.

You can see evidence of this in every swing video posted so far. The players are lifting the right heel and the weight falls onto the left side as a result.

Pushing down or pushing off the right side would INCREASE the weight on the right side. You're adding pressure, because you can't push off without applying a force. This is the opposite of getting the weight off the right side.

[hoselpalooza]

5 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

The other way to get pressure off your right side, that you're too stubborn to realize is what's happening, is that the right side is lifting up.

The right side lifts up, while the left side does not. This results in a weight shift to the left, simple as that.

You can see evidence of this in every swing video posted so far. The players are lifting the right heel and the weight falls onto the left side as a result.

Pushing down or pushing off the right side would INCREASE the weight on the right side. You're adding pressure, because you can't push off without applying a force. This is the opposite of getting the weight off the right side.

you must not have watched the kisner trace above. watch it. it clearly demonstrates my point. skip to 3:09 if you want to hear about how the shift to the right starts from the left, not from lifting, from left.

Edited June 7, 2019 by hoselpalooza
clarity

[billchao]

21 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

you must not have watched the kisner trace above. watch it. it clearly demonstrates my point. skip to 3:09 if you want to hear about how the shift to the right starts from the left, not from lifting, from left.

Did you watch the video? At transition the pressure goes from 53% trail side to 81% lead side in one frame. Look at the heat map of his right foot. It goes from dark blue at the top to light blue in transition, indicating less pressure on that foot, not more. A push would exert more force on the ground and the dark blue would get darker. The pressure shifts slightly to the outside of the trail foot because the hands and club are heading in that direction at transition.

At this point you're just seeing what you want to see instead of accepting the evidence being presented to you, much of which you yourself have provided.

It doesn't matter if any tour pro feels like the trail foot is pushing, because when they're measured, it's clearly not.

[hoselpalooza]

16 minutes ago, billchao said:

Did you watch the video? At transition the pressure goes from 53% trail side to 81% lead side in one frame. Look at the heat map of his right foot. It goes from dark blue at the top to light blue in transition, indicating less pressure on that foot, not more. A push would exert more force on the ground and the dark blue would get darker. The pressure shifts slightly to the outside of the trail foot because the hands and club are heading in that direction at transition.

At this point you're just seeing what you want to see instead of accepting the evidence being presented to you, much of which you yourself have provided.

It doesn't matter if any tour pro feels like the trail foot is pushing, because when they're measured, it's clearly not.

yes, and i listened to the analysis. the person doing the analysis states that despite how quickly the pressure shifts to the lead foot, the shift starts from the trail side. 

are you going to accuse me of hearing what i want to hear now, too?

[boogielicious]

1 minute ago, hoselpalooza said:

yes, and i listened to the analysis. the person doing the analysis states that despite how quickly the pressure shifts to the lead foot, the shift starts from the trail side. 

are you going to accuse me of hearing what i want to hear now, too?

Are you going to start name calling and sending PMs to moderators and swear at us because no one agrees with you? People have offered you data and you don’t even look at it. You share data that shows the opposite of what you say it does. Is it possible that you are the only one who is correct and all the instructors on this site, and their community of instructors who have studied these subjects with scientific methods as their profession are wrong?

i don’t think so. Most of us came to this site to learn. You seem to know everything and think all of us are just stupid. 

Your routine is getting old.

[billchao]

18 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

yes, and i listened to the analysis. the person doing the analysis states that despite how quickly the pressure shifts to the lead foot, the shift starts from the trail side. 

And I explained why. He never said anything about pushing off the trail foot, he just mentions the pressure starts that way at first.

Look at the heat map of the feet. The trail foot pressure decreases as it shifts towards the outside of the foot.

---

Look, I made a video:

Pressure shifts to the lead side with clearly no push from the trail foot at transition.

And I don't think I'd be going out on a limb here, but my lower body action is more dynamic than yours.

[boogielicious]

8 minutes ago, billchao said:

And I explained why. He never said anything about pushing off the trail foot, he just mentions the pressure starts that way at first.

Look at the heat map of the feet. The trail foot pressure decreases as it shifts towards the outside of the foot.

---

Look, I made a video:

Pressure shifts to the lead side with clearly no push from the trail foot at transition.

And I don't think I'd be going out on a limb here, but my lower body action is more dynamic than yours.

That is a F-ing awesome video!!!!!!

[drabby1980]

Seems like people really quickly resort to name calling and belittling here.  Everybody just digging into their argument and acting like the other side is ignoring their truth.  "You don't agree with me, so you are ignoring the truth"

[billchao]

5 minutes ago, drabby1980 said:

Seems like people really quickly resort to name calling and belittling here.

I haven't seen that at all. What I've seen is one side presenting a weak argument and getting called out on it. We like to engage in debates around here with arguments supported by fact-based evidence.

7 minutes ago, drabby1980 said:

Everybody just digging into their argument and acting like the other side is ignoring their truth.  "You don't agree with me, so you are ignoring the truth"

This topic isn't like having a disagreement over your favorite candy or something. This stuff has been measured and studied. There aren't "truths" here, just one truth - what is actually occurring in a good golf swing. Not what that golfer feels is occurring.

Did you have something to add to the discussion that's on topic?

[drabby1980]

2 minutes ago, billchao said:

I haven't seen that at all. What I've seen is one side presenting a weak argument and getting called out on it. We like to engage in debates around here with arguments supported by fact-based evidence.

This topic isn't like having a disagreement over your favorite candy or something. This stuff has been measured and studied. There aren't "truths" here, just one truth - what is actually occurring in a good golf swing. Not what that golfer feels is occurring.

Did you have something to add to the discussion that's on 

Kinda proved my point.  The other side of this argument has provided some solid points, but they have been discounted by "science", but not really.  Many assumptions have been made and you have not proven that Kisner is not driving off his trail foot.  Your arguments are not really scientific, just saying "science" doesn't make things right.  Seems like moderators just shout down opposing viewpoints until they shut up.

[Pretzel]

Just now, drabby1980 said:

Kinda proved my point.  The other side of this argument has provided some solid points, but they have been discounted by "science", but not really.  Many assumptions have been made and you have not proven that Kisner is not driving off his trail foot.  Your arguments are not really scientific, just saying "science" doesn't make things right.  Seems like moderators just shout down opposing viewpoints until they shut up.

The side you're defending has presented only evidence that works against it. 

The side you claim of unfairly attacking the other has provided hard data that backs up their arguments.

Then there's you, who comes in slinging mud without having the decency to even pretend to care about truth. People who care about the truth tend to like data and facts, rather than opinions of what something feels like.

[billchao]

9 minutes ago, drabby1980 said:

you have not proven that Kisner is not driving off his trail foot.

Please show me where the pressure increase in his right foot from driving or pushing off of it is.

[drabby1980]

23 minutes ago, billchao said:

Please show me where the pressure increase in his right foot from driving or pushing off of it is.

That does not prove what you think it does.  Pushing off the trail foot would shift the weight to the other side as it's a pivot point.  There is clearly a lot of pressure on the trail foot initially and that pressure and "push" moves it, which is the OP point.  

[hoselpalooza]

BOOM! i'm just presenting more data. listen to this starting at 1:07. is exactly what i've been talking about.