Would You Rather…?

[boogielicious]

  On 3/10/2025 at 3:29 PM, ChetlovesMer said:

Would You Rather #65:

Would you rather be a golfer who can control the distance you hit your irons within a yard or two, but left right dispersion is 15 yards. 

or

Would you rather be able to hit your irons pretty much dead straight but your distance control is only plus or minus 10 percent. 
 

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Option 1 definitely. 15 yards lateral from target is not that bad. Your shot zone essentially would become a 2 yard thin arc that’s 30 yards wide. Plus, if it is a normal distribution, the majority of the shots would be within the center standard deviation, so really smaller that 30 yards.

[p1n9183]

  On 3/11/2025 at 5:53 PM, p1n9183 said:

I go with option #2. 
Since my average approach shot is around 130-150, both dispersions are almost equal but I think that in general missing the green short is better than missing left or right. Of course missing long is in general the worst but I can club down and always be on the green or short.  

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In addition, the roll after the ball lands is going to be better in option #2. 
On option 1 the ball is travelling a couple degrees away from the target so after it lands is going to roll a couple more yards away from the target making the dispersion wider. This don't happen with option 2, the ball is travelling straight to the target so after it lands it will roll in the same direction. 

More importantly, in general, the landing areas around the greens slopes away from the hole so the balls that miss left or right of the green are going to bounce away from the hole even more. In case 2 the slope on the green and short is normally slopping against the flight of the ball so it not going to roll out away from the target, it's going to help stopping the ball.  

[iacas]

  On 3/12/2025 at 6:05 PM, p1n9183 said:

In addition, the roll after the ball lands is going to be better in option #2. 
On option 1 the ball is travelling a couple degrees away from the target so after it lands is going to roll a couple more yards away from the target making the dispersion wider. This don't happen with option 2, the ball is travelling straight to the target so after it lands it will roll in the same direction. 

More importantly, in general, the landing areas around the greens slopes away from the hole so the balls that miss left or right of the green are going to bounce away from the hole even more. In case 2 the slope on the green and short is normally slopping against the flight of the ball so it not going to roll out away from the target, it's going to help stopping the ball.  

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Yes, stop the ball short… and a ball that goes long will just go even more long.

[p1n9183]

  On 3/13/2025 at 1:26 AM, iacas said:

Yes, stop the ball short… and a ball that goes long will just go even more long.

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No, you club down so the longer ball still hold the green and the shorter roll closer to the green. 

[klineka]

  On 3/13/2025 at 4:03 PM, p1n9183 said:

No, you club down so the longer ball still hold the green and the shorter roll closer to the green. 

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But if you clubbed down then the short one is going to be even shorter (even after it rolls forward a bit) 

It's not like a shot that was 20yds short is going to magically roll right next to the hole man.

[p1n9183]

  On 3/13/2025 at 4:08 PM, klineka said:

It's not like a shot that was 20yds short is going to magically roll right next to the hole man.

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In a normal 30x20 green, a left/rigth 15 yard miss is going to be missing the green, probably in the bunker. A short/long 15 yards miss is still going to be in the green. Scoring average is always going to be lower if you have 100% GIR. Unbeatable. 

I love this tool I created. Is an spreedsheets that calculate the scoring average of a dispersion in a certain green with the flag you want.  

I set both dispersions in order to score as low as they can in this Par 3 from 150 yards, in this case avoiding going into the water.  

Option 1: Scoring average: 2.96  GIR: 59%

 

Option 2: Scoring average: 2.79   GIR: 97%

[klineka]

  On 3/13/2025 at 7:19 PM, p1n9183 said:

In a normal 30x20 green, a left/rigth 15 yard miss is going to be missing the green, probably in the bunker. A short/long 15 yards miss is still going to be in the green. Scoring average is always going to be lower if you have 100% GIR. Unbeatable. 

I love this tool I created. Is an spreedsheets that calculate the scoring average of a dispersion in a certain green with the flag you want.  

I set both dispersions in order to score as low as they can in this Par 3 from 150 yards, in this case avoiding going into the water.  

Option 1: Scoring average: 2.96  GIR: 59%

 

Option 2: Scoring average: 2.79   GIR: 97%

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Anyone can cherry pick a green shape to fit their narrative. 

Now do the same thing but for this green that has an extremely sloped hill short, so good chance to roll back to the water, and mounds long that kick long shots OB. It's like a 175yd tee shot too. 

 

Or this one. Where the approach shot is from 200+ yds with a severe slope towards the water and very tightly mowed sloped runoff behind the green.

 

Edited March 13 by klineka

[iacas]

  On 3/13/2025 at 4:03 PM, p1n9183 said:

No, you club down so the longer ball still hold the green and the shorter roll closer to the green. 

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@klineka has already addressed this stuff, but as I said in my first answer… distance control is typically more important. Knowing exactly how far a ball will carry is huge.

[p1n9183]

 

  On 3/13/2025 at 9:08 PM, iacas said:

Knowing exactly how far a ball will carry is huge.

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Totally, but keeping the ball in line i will keep you a LOT more out of trouble. 

 

  On 3/13/2025 at 7:32 PM, klineka said:

Anyone can cherry pick a green shape to fit their narrative. 

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I agree! but still, in average greens are more depth than wide so what you are showing are less normal in golf courses. Take the time and you will see that even on your own home course you have a lot more greens that have more depth than width. 
So having less dispersion sideways is better than in depth just because of how greens are made in general. 
Also average greens generally have more danger sideways than directionally so makes it even more important to keep it straight.

Perception of reality is on thing, numbers that backup your ideas is another. 

[iacas]

  On 3/14/2025 at 2:40 PM, p1n9183 said:

Totally, but keeping the ball in line i will keep you a LOT more out of trouble.

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No, it won't. Statistically, that's wrong. Length misses are higher penalties.

Plus the comparison wasn't even: it was controlling the distance within a yard or two (let's say 3 yards depth) and 15 yards left or right (30 * 3 = 90 square yards) or "pretty much dead straight" (let's assume the same 3 yards, even though that's an incredibly tight definition for "straight") and only from 150 yards out is your distance control ± 15 yards for the same 90. From 170, it's 34 * 3 = 102.

Tiger Woods once said "the secret to good golf is being hole high." The stats bear that out, too.

  On 3/14/2025 at 2:40 PM, p1n9183 said:

Perception of reality is on thing, numbers that backup your ideas is another. 

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And the numbers back up what I and @klineka have said. 😄

[ChetlovesMer]

Would You Rather #66:
 

Would you rather have terrible yips on very short putts. So much so that its weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have a putt longer than a foot, but shorter than 4 feet. 

or 

Would you rather suffer from terrible snap hooks off the tee. So much so that it weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have your driver in hand. 

[boogielicious]

  On 3/18/2025 at 9:30 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

Would You Rather #66:
 

Would you rather have terrible yips on very short putts. So much so that its weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have a putt longer than a foot, but shorter than 4 feet. 

or 

Would you rather suffer from terrible snap hooks off the tee. So much so that it weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have your driver in hand. 

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It’s like you know me! I’m already #2.

[iacas]

  On 3/18/2025 at 9:30 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

Would You Rather #66:
 

Would you rather have terrible yips on very short putts. So much so that its weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have a putt longer than a foot, but shorter than 4 feet. 

or 

Would you rather suffer from terrible snap hooks off the tee. So much so that it weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have your driver in hand. 

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#2, because I can just play golf with a 3W or a mini driver (if that qualifies) or something. Or just leave the face wide open. Plus it's easier to actually fix #2, and I'm a good putter.

[ChetlovesMer]

  On 3/18/2025 at 9:30 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

Would You Rather #66:
 

Would you rather have terrible yips on very short putts. So much so that its weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have a putt longer than a foot, but shorter than 4 feet. 

or 

Would you rather suffer from terrible snap hooks off the tee. So much so that it weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have your driver in hand. 

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Let me start by saying I've never had "The Yips". But I have suffered from brutal snap hook off the tee syndrome. I once entered a tournament in which I went in feeling pretty good about my game. Then I snap hooked the very first tee shot. (I didn't see it coming. No snap hooks during warm up on the range.) After that, I couldn't stop snap hooking the entire tournament. That was like 15-20 years ago and I have golf friends who to this day make fun of me for how I played in that tournament. Conversely, a buddy of ours once had the worse case of the yips I've ever seen in a tournament. Everyone felt sorry for him. 

My point is in my experience you get the snap hooks you get made fun of. You get the yips you get sympathy. 

[p1n9183]

  On 3/14/2025 at 5:36 PM, iacas said:

No, it won't. Statistically, that's wrong. Length misses are higher penalties.

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Show the stats or give a convincing argument. Just because you said it is not enough argument.

  On 3/14/2025 at 5:36 PM, iacas said:

From 170, it's 34 * 3 = 102.

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An even at that distance and with a disadvantage in dispersion I think that missing short/long is better than left/rigth. 

  On 3/14/2025 at 5:36 PM, iacas said:

Tiger Woods once said "the secret to good golf is being hole high." The stats bear that out, too.

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So? One.. he said this in a world were statistics weren't a thing yet and also he was talking about real golf, not and invented trhead where you need to decide if it's better to be straigth or really (insert here world that describe that you hit the ball exactly the distance you want)

 

 

  On 3/18/2025 at 9:30 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

Would You Rather #66:
 

Would you rather have terrible yips on very short putts. So much so that its weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have a putt longer than a foot, but shorter than 4 feet. 

or 

Would you rather suffer from terrible snap hooks off the tee. So much so that it weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have your driver in hand. 

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#1 Give me putting yips. My home course have 90% OB left. 

 

[iacas]

  23 hours ago, p1n9183 said:

Show the stats or give a convincing argument. Just because you said it is not enough argument.

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Sorry, bud, but I would think my standing in the game and all I've done, shared, etc. earns me a little respect here. But not from you, I guess. Fine.

This isn't the topic for that, and it would take me at least about 15 minutes to make the stats presentable in a minimum way I'd feel comfortable in presenting them, so, no thank you. You're wrong, and I'm comfortable sharing that you're wrong, and others who understand my position and history and whatnot will accept it and move on.

If you can't, that's fine, and I get it. But you're still wrong. 😄 

  23 hours ago, p1n9183 said:

An even at that distance and with a disadvantage in dispersion I think that missing short/long is better than left/rigth. 

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And on the whole, you're wrong. 🤣

  23 hours ago, p1n9183 said:

So? One.. he said this in a world were statistics weren't a thing yet and also he was talking about real golf

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Dude.

[WillieT]

  On 3/18/2025 at 9:30 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

Would You Rather #66:
 

Would you rather have terrible yips on very short putts. So much so that its weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have a putt longer than a foot, but shorter than 4 feet. 

or 

Would you rather suffer from terrible snap hooks off the tee. So much so that it weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have your driver in hand. 

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Interesting points from the panel.

Me - #2 would be easier to handle as I like to go less than driver on some holes, just because the approach distances suit my eye better.  So I could overcome the distance loss that less than driver presents. 

[GolfLug]

  On 3/18/2025 at 9:30 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

Would You Rather #66:
 

Would you rather have terrible yips on very short putts. So much so that its weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have a putt longer than a foot, but shorter than 4 feet. 

or 

Would you rather suffer from terrible snap hooks off the tee. So much so that it weighs heavily on your mind anytime you have your driver in hand. 

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Oh.. I take yips by a mile  I'm already a nervy putter and wouldn't be much skin off my back, but more importantly putting is bullshit. Not golf. Invented by some unathletic dufftard who couldn't strike a 'baw' to save their life but yet had to find relevance somehow. Plus I can always switch to sim golf full time if it gets too bad with an 8 feet gimmie setting. If I didn't have to hit another 4 footer for the rest of my life, it would be good riddance.