LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[iacas]

  On 2/3/2022 at 4:47 AM, Vinsk said:

I certainly know TS isn’t hurting for money, nor is Phil.

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TLC had to file for bankruptcy.

[Vinsk]

  On 2/3/2022 at 5:08 AM, iacas said:

TLC had to file for bankruptcy.

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True. Although they did sign a rather shady deal even for the music industry. They were huge and could’ve signed with anyone they wanted. Can’t remember if the label companies were found to have acted criminally. But TLC’s deal was a hell of a lot worse than Phil paying 1 million compared to what he earned for the matches.
 

But I do believe the PGA Tour is probably milking the top players more than they should be able to. I’d like to know what goes on outside the public eye as Phil said. I can’t imagine money is the only enticing thing giving these guys interest in playing on another league.

[iacas]

  On 2/3/2022 at 5:28 AM, Vinsk said:

But TLC’s deal was a hell of a lot worse than Phil paying 1 million compared to what he earned for the matches.

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My original question to you is this, though: why did Phil owe the PGA Tour a single cent?

The PGA Tour already put the kibosh on the first Match being worth $10M, because that was the value of the FedExCup at the time, and so it was for $9M, even though Phil and Tiger are, by most accounts, independent contractors (and were or would clearly become lifetime members of the PGA Tour).

  On 2/3/2022 at 5:28 AM, Vinsk said:

But I do believe the PGA Tour is probably milking the top players more than they should be able to.

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Top PGA Tour players generally make quite a bit less as compared to the bottom players than in most other sports in the world.

Rory, Rahm, Tiger, Phil, Spieth, Morikawa… they should all be making more compared to the #100 or #125 players, than they do.

[Vinsk]

  On 2/3/2022 at 5:29 AM, iacas said:

My original question to you is this, though: why did Phil owe the PGA Tour a single cent?

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Good question. I’d like to know on what grounds they felt the right to demand it.

 

  On 2/3/2022 at 5:29 AM, iacas said:

Top PGA Tour players generally make quite a bit less as compared to the bottom players than in most other sports in the world.

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Quite a different dynamic with golf though. The opportunity is there. You win, you take the money. No matter how good a punter is, he won’t make more than the back up quarterback. Golfers are paid for performance. As far as the gap in pay, are you saying the top players should get more from…..where? The bottom players aren’t stuck at the bottom due to contracts or market value. They’re there because they’re not performing as well as the top guys.

Of course I’m biased to golf and it irks me that a mediocre basketball player is making more than a top level golfer. But is this because the NBA has a lot more money or because it’s just less greedy than the PGA tour?

[iacas]

  On 2/3/2022 at 6:15 AM, Vinsk said:

Quite a different dynamic with golf though. The opportunity is there. You win, you take the money. No matter how good a punter is, he won’t make more than the back up quarterback.

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That's like comparing a caddie to a player.

The best five players in the world, in golf, make less than they would make in any other sport.

  On 2/3/2022 at 6:15 AM, Vinsk said:

As far as the gap in pay, are you saying the top players should get more from…..where?

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Where does the PGA Tour keep finding money for… stuff like the PIP? The PGA Tour makes a LOT of money. And even if it wasn't that you're adding money, perhaps you distribute it differently — pay the top guys more and the bottom guys less.

  On 2/3/2022 at 6:15 AM, Vinsk said:

The bottom players aren’t stuck at the bottom due to contracts or market value. They’re there because they’re not performing as well as the top guys.

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And they make too much, especially relative to their performance, narrowing the gap - they aren't as separated as they are/should be.

You're arguing both sides man. Do the math.

  On 2/3/2022 at 6:15 AM, Vinsk said:

Of course I’m biased to golf and it irks me that a mediocre basketball player is making more than a top level golfer.

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That's not the math I'm talking about.

The difference, top to bottom, is still greater in the NBA. The PGA Tour brings up the bottom players and pays the top players less. That irks the top players — rightfully so.

Nobody's buying tickets to attend an event or tuning in to watch Tom Hoge, yet he made like $1.7M last year.

There's no reason other than "that's how it's always been" that winners get, what, 17% of the purse and not, say, 30%. But the PGA Tour is a member-run organization, so they look after all of the members. The league is not set up the same as the other leagues where star players are understood by the owners to be the attractions that put buts in the seats and bring championships (or playoff berths) to the franchises.

Ergo, the top players in golf earn comparatively little relative to other sports.

[iacas]

All that said, PHUCK Phil:

 

And seriously, what do the Saudis think they're getting in a 51-year-old player who, yes, recaptured the magic once in May but who keeps missing the cut in other events.

[ChetlovesMer]

  On 2/3/2022 at 1:29 PM, iacas said:

Nobody's buying tickets to attend an event or tuning in to watch Tom Hoge, yet he made like $1.7M last year.

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You could probably make a good argument that Charlie Woods should be the second highest paid golfer. 

The 2021 PNC Championship earned NBC Sports its highest ratings in over two decades. 

[iacas]

  On 2/3/2022 at 1:42 PM, ChetlovesMer said:

The 2021 PNC Championship earned NBC Sports its highest ratings in over two decades. 

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You're mis-remembering (or being misleading with the statement).

It got the highest rating in 20 years for that tournament. It still only got a 1.4 rating and about 2.3 million viewers.

[ChetlovesMer]

  On 2/3/2022 at 1:53 PM, iacas said:

You're mis-remembering (or being misleading with the statement).

It got the highest rating in 20 years for that tournament. It still only got a 1.4 rating and about 2.3 million viewers.

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Actually, I irresponsibly repeating information that I heard on the radio as I was driving around. Never-the-less, the point is more people would tune in to watch Tiger/Charlie than Tom Hoge. 

[iacas]

 

Just financially (setting aside any moral shit for now), how does Bryson NOT take that deal if it's true? And that's just a signing bonus, I think.

[Vinsk]

  On 2/3/2022 at 1:29 PM, iacas said:

Where does the PGA Tour keep finding money for… stuff like the PIP? The PGA Tour makes a LOT of money. And even if it wasn't that you're adding money, perhaps you distribute it differently — pay the top guys more and the bottom guys less.

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Ok, this I agree. I think I was arguing both sides just being focused on Phil. I see two very greedy entities, Phil and the PGA Tour, colliding. But I agree with you based on the Tom Hoge statement. 1.7million? That’s crazy.

[iacas]

I think Phil is vastly over-estimating his value at this point in his career.

Last year's PGA was a fluke. He's missing cuts or finishing outside the top 50 regularly.

[BruceMGF]

  On 2/3/2022 at 1:53 PM, iacas said:

  On 2/3/2022 at 1:29 PM, iacas said:

 

The best five players in the world, in golf, make less than they would make in any other sport.

 

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Really?  ANY other sport?  I found this on bleacherreport:

"Players in the National Lacrosse League earn $9,200 in their rookie season, which is then negotiable up to as much as $27,000 a year after that ($34,000 for a Franchise Player)."

Better to be a professional bowler, where the top pros make 200000 to 300000.  But a whole lot less than any exempt player on the PGA tour.

You're comparing golf to the richest pro sports organizations in the world.  Maybe golf isn't quite there.

Of course, Phil Mickelson could have tried to an NFL quarterback or an NBA guard.  I don't think he would have made it.

Or he could have learned to code, as I did, outearning pro lacrosse players.

 

[iacas]

  On 2/3/2022 at 2:58 PM, BruceMGF said:

Really?  ANY other sport?

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I'm talking about major sports. Disc golf doesn't count here man, c'mon.

If you seriously thought I was talking about professional bass fishing or whatever, no, I wasn't.

And yes, golf is a major sport, and the PGA Tour is a major league.

And you're still missing out on the point that it's relative, it's the gap, not their actual totals.

[Double Mocha Man]

  On 2/3/2022 at 2:58 PM, BruceMGF said:

Phil Mickelson could have tried to an NFL quarterback or an NBA guard.

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We've all seen Phil's 6 inch vertical leap.

[iacas]

To be clear, I don't think Phil is being offered a bunch of money as a player per se, but more a "50-60-year-old CEOs all know who Phil Mickelson is" legitimacy/revenue/partnerships angle.

And I still think he's over-rating his value, and what siding with the Saudis can do for his reputation.

[klineka]

  On 2/2/2022 at 5:07 PM, BruceMGF said:

Apparently I've been out of the loop, because I just heard of this today and I see it's been discussed here before.  I don't remember it being discussed on any telecasts I've seen.

 

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Why would the telecasts, which are broadcasting a PGA tour event, talk about competing tours?

That'd be like during an NFL broadcast the announcers start talking about the Canadian Football League or the Arena Football League or something. That just won't happen.

[iacas]

Lee Westwood: Asian Tour now seen as a threat; signs NDA about Saudi-backed breakaway league | Golf News | Sky Sports

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Former world No 1 Lee Westwood believes players from other tours will see the big-money investment into the Asian Tour as a threat to the sport.