More Broadie and Distance/Score Stats

[Vinsk]

Increased distance has never been more obvious on the PGA Tour

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The longest hitters in golf are all there at the top of the world ranking. Coincidence? Nope. The game's...

I apologize as I’m incapable of quoting text from the article and presenting this as eloquently as many TST members could. But I enjoyed this article and once again see the role distance plays in golf.

[bwdial]

Wow... so making courses overly long played into the hands of the long-hitters?  Who would've thunk it?

[billchao]

1 hour ago, bwdial said:

Wow... so making courses overly long played into the hands of the long-hitters?  Who would've thunk it?

Distance has always been an advantage, but it appears they’ve managed to put shorter hitters at a greater disadvantage by lengthening courses.

I’m not sure things would have been any different if they didn’t lengthen courses, though. People hitting the ball farther has just been the natural progression of the athletes as technology advanced, understanding of the swing and what drives scoring increased. Still, guys like Jim Furyk and Zach Johnson have had pretty good careers in the post Tiger-proofing era.

[criley4way]

30 minutes ago, billchao said:

Distance has always been an advantage, but it appears they’ve managed to put shorter hitters at a greater disadvantage by lengthening courses.

I’m not sure things would have been any different if they didn’t lengthen courses, though. People hitting the ball farther has just been the natural progression of the athletes as technology advanced, understanding of the swing and what drives scoring increased. Still, guys like Jim Furyk and Zach Johnson have had pretty good careers in the post Tiger-proofing era.

Shorter hitters can still make good $$ in the modern game it is just much harder for them to win consistently. 

Is it just the length or how they have lengthed the course or which courses can be lengthened that is playing into this. It seem to me that more and more of the holes are relatively straight long with penalties on one side. I see few course with significant doglegs where short is in the trees and long is in the junk. When Erin hills had some holes like that they USGA softened the rough. 

Unless there is more penalty for missing the fairway and missing the landing area the big boys will bomb and gouge. 

[billchao]

1 hour ago, criley4way said:

Unless there is more penalty for missing the fairway and missing the landing area the big boys will bomb and gouge. 

Golf has kind of always been like that, though. They can't just go out and make every course have US Open rough because that also punishes short hitters. They don't hit every fairway, they have less speed than the longer guys to hit the ball out with, and they're hitting longer clubs out to begin with.

Have to remember too that the guy who hits the ball longer isn't necessarily less accurate than the guy that hits the ball shorter. They can miss the target line by the same degree and the longer shot is going to be farther away laterally than the shorter one.

[criley4way]

On 4/22/2020 at 6:07 PM, billchao said:

Golf has kind of always been like that, though. They can't just go out and make every course have US Open rough because that also punishes short hitters. They don't hit every fairway, they have less speed than the longer guys to hit the ball out with, and they're hitting longer clubs out to begin with.

Have to remember too that the guy who hits the ball longer isn't necessarily less accurate than the guy that hits the ball shorter. They can miss the target line by the same degree and the longer shot is going to be farther away laterally than the shorter one.

Good perspective. I wouldn’t suggest making all rough long but rather position tees and rough to increase the reward /reward of hitting a spot and the penalty of missing the fairway or being out of position. Big accurate hitters will always have an advantage over shorter or less accurate ball strikers. 
 

I am suggesting that the balance of distance vs accuracy is too skewed towards distance and the balance needs to be reestablished. 

[dennyjones]

15 minutes ago, criley4way said:

I am suggesting that the balance of distance vs accuracy is too skewed towards distance and the balance needs to be reestablished. 

I can't agree here.   Distance is a skill set.     

[saevel25]

28 minutes ago, criley4way said:

I am suggesting that the balance of distance vs accuracy is too skewed towards distance and the balance needs to be reestablished.

I will disagree. I think distance on the PGA tour is finally balancing out to making what distance is, a skill. I understand there are some golfers out there who will struggle because they cap out at sub 270. But, that also is saying that younger, more athletic people are playing on the PGA tour. 

The question is, do you say, "Well, they're just too good, we should penalize them for being too good."

If you wanted fair when it comes from an accuracy perspective. Make the fairway width equal to 3% accuracy across every driver distance. So in fact, the fairways should be getting narrower the closer you get to the tee box. That would be fair. 

[billchao]

45 minutes ago, criley4way said:

Good perspective. I wouldn’t suggest making all rough long but rather position tees and rough to increase the reward /reward of hitting a spot and the penalty of missing the fairway or being out of position. Big accurate hitters will always have an advantage over shorter or less accurate ball strikers. 

Still probably wouldn’t have the effect you’d think it would. If they had to be more accurate because of the course setup, longer hitters would be able to hit 3w or driving iron to a spot that a shorter hitter has to take driver or 3w to. And again, they’re holding a shorter club in their hands on their approach shots than their shorter peers.

The advantage still lies with the longer hitter.

47 minutes ago, criley4way said:

I am suggesting that the balance of distance vs accuracy is too skewed towards distance and the balance needs to be reestablished. 

I don’t think distance and accuracy were as balanced as people seem to make it out to be. I think what we’re seeing is more people understanding how much of an advantage distance can be, so the coaching and strategy has shifted. Tiger was never known for his accuracy off the tee, even in his youth. I think he changed the way people approach the game.

[Vinsk]

People don’t like to believe distance is a skill. They look at it like a basketball player that’s 6’11 vs 5’11. Height is not a skill. Distance is a skill. JT can hit the ball as far as Brooks. It’s the evolution of golf which is a sport. Athletes are better. It’s just the way it is.