My Problems with George Gankas Instruction

[iacas]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:01 AM, Phil McGleno said:

Thank you to certain people behind the scenes in a PM for encouraging me to post this. And to take the time to make it good. I am posting this to have a discussion. I like a lot of what George teaches, but I do take issue with the things I listed up above.

Not many people here are "qualified" to have a swing theory discussion (about ALL swings, not their specific individual swing), nor should an average golfer really concern himself with this type of discussion. They should be focusing on their few priority pieces, and working on those things.

I think that if George and @Phil McGleno were in a room together, a recording of the discussion would be illuminating to many.

[gjunkie57]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

Not many people here are "qualified" to have a swing theory discussion (about ALL swings, not their specific individual swing), nor should an average golfer really concern himself with this type of discussion. They should be focusing on their few priority pieces, and working on those things.

I think that if George and @Phil McGleno were in a room together, a recording of the discussion would be illuminating to many.

You are right.  I got lost halfway through the analysis because I am ignorant of the terminology.  Even the pictures didn’t help. I will stay in my lane.  

[iacas]

9 hours ago, gjunkie57 said:

You are right.  I got lost halfway through the analysis because I am ignorant of the terminology.  Even the pictures didn’t help. I will stay in my lane.  

Nothing stops you from starting to learn what he's talking about, of course.

[JetFan1983]

Thanks for this. Clarified several things I was wondering about. I admit that I have been very confused by his teachings more often than not. That's typically a bad sign for a golf instructor.

 

 

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, DeadPoets said:

Quote

"11. George says the arms shifting out shallows the shaft. While it can it can also make the shaft get steeper or do anything else too. You can overcome the pretty weak force that shifting the hands out shallows the shaft very easily. I see people shift the arms out and steepen EVERY damn day on my lesson tee. Plus with GEARS or 3D we know the butt of the club early transition tends to move more vertically down and then moves out. It follows the movement of the body/torso: it lowers 'closed' and then starts opening up. If you have to shift your arms out and go ER, how is Rory one of the most shallow players and Noren one of the steepest?"

Again, the author isn't telling the full story and is being a bit disingenuous imo by leaving out key parts, but whatever.  I posted vid below if anybody wants to see what Gankas actually says.

 

I have some issues with that video. The two biggest ones (from an admitted skimming of the video):

• George shows how the club shallows when you swing… by barely holding on to the grip with the tips of your fingers. Sure, that will probably do it, but when golfers are holding on with normal grips, all sorts of other things take place. (@Phil McGleno said it as "You can overcome the pretty weak force that shifting the hands out shallows the shaft very easily.") This sounds good in theory, but generally doesn't work in practice.
• The arms have a lot farther to travel, so if they're swinging down at a 1:1 ratio with the hips… they're going to be really late.
• The game's best often move their hands downward and away from the ball at the top of the backswing. Like the guy below… (And in re-reading the quoted part, I basically just re-stated one of the things in that quoted stuff from @Phil McGleno again.)

[JetFan1983]

For the Barstool fans here, Riggs got a lesson from Gankas recently.

It's been a while since I worked on my golf theory stuff, but generally I agree with GG about what the problem is. Riggs does need to open a lot more, more passive right arm. Not sure I like the "look down the target line right away" thing on the downswing though.

Some quarter and half swings probably would help to incorporate too, mixed in with the speedier stuff.

Anyway, I thought this was a good spot to post this for any further discussion on GG that people wanted to have.

[colin007]

I should probably also stay in my lane on this, but it seems like he overemphasizes the rotation and not enough of driving the arms to match with that body rotation. Arms get dragged behind. Of course I'm prolly 150% wrong

[JetFan1983]

1 minute ago, colin007 said:

I should probably also stay in my lane on this, but it seems like he overemphasizes the rotation and not enough of driving the arms to match with that body rotation. Arms get dragged behind. Of course I'm prolly 150% wrong

Awww, naw swerve recklessly with me!

[iacas]

• 30-40° open with the hips
• 15-20° with the chest
• 5-10° with the shoulders

That's all you really want. Yeah, the guy was closed, and what GG kept showing was likely the "feel" to get MORE open, but your chest doesn't need to be 30° open at impact.

[iacas]

 

[Golfer from beyond]

I took a 2 hour Lessing from GG a few years ago right before he exploded in popularity in the main stream golfing world. He was already pretty popular on IG which is how I found him. I will say he’s a pretty nice guy. 
 

basically what he was trying to teach me was impossible for me to physically do (most of it a lack of the Uber flexibility required to do what he wants). He had his helper doing this rotation thing where they make your lead knee turn on the downswing (you can see this in the old GG swing tips videos). It felt really weird and to this day I have no idea how to replicate that feeling. It also did not really do anything to help me hit the ball better. 
 

I can’t remember specifically what else we focused on (a lot of it was what he preached on gg swing tips) but it made me hit the ball worse. To the point where after a few weeks of practicing it I gave up on the whole methodology. I’ve been playing for a long time (mid to high single digits) and understand that changes take time but IMO, a good instructor will help you see some improvements right away. During and  Immediately after the lesson I was hitting it way worse.

as someone who already opens my shoulders way too early in the downswing (too much David duval influence), I can say that opening the shoulders to much on the downswing is detrimental. Pinning the arms on the chest which is do is also really bad. The arms are pinned for a split second and need to come off the chest to reach the golf ball. GG kept trying to get me more open and the more open I got the worse my swing got. 
 

I also took a lesson from his disciple Jake gilmer in Las Vegas. Same thing. Didn’t help at all and I just couldn’t make the movements that he wanted me to. IMO they teach too much body rotation and not enough swinging the arms and hands and blending the body. 
 

A lot of his top students are excellent players who are super limber and super talented. If you look at me, someone who is decently athletic but has numerous bad habits from bad coaching and poor concepts from the 1980s/90s, gg was not able to help me improve.

if you look at his pros, they all seem to be having their own issues. Look at Danny Lee, sung kang, wolffe, and ahkshay. In fact, it seems like ahkshay doesn’t work with gg how and went back to his old coach Duncan in NC. Gg also worked with Adam Scott a few times and that relationship obviously didn’t work. Oh and what about paddy Harrington? Paddy was all about gg but don’t seem to hear much about that now.

For the record, I’m not hating on gg. I could careless if he’s the best coach in the world or not. But I wanted to share my personal  insight and opinions. I also find this discussion really fascinating. I have personal experience with this coaching. I don’t think his concepts can help the majority of players. Way too difficult to do what he preaches physically and he makes everything way too complicated.

If you want one good example, check out his lesson with Brendan from be better golf. That’s kind of how I felt when I took my lesson. Awkward with no improvement. Kinda gets you scratching your head.

 

 

[hunterlee]

Would you be cool with having a conversation about this recorded in real time and posted on here un edited?

[hokie2009]

flow?
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CUFsrbglBdy/

[iacas]

George Gankas (@georgegankasgolf) • Instagram reel

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1,179 Likes, 146 Comments - George Gankas (@georgegankasgolf) on Instagram: "@brianmanzella is not wrong we have no beef I’m just looking at the swing a little differently. Not better just different and that is ok 👍🏼"

[Vinsk]

I just can’t see it. At 1:37 it sure looks like he’s lowering his trail arm. How can you have have your arms above your shoulders at one point then swing a club to strike a ball on the ground without lowering your arms? 

[saevel25]

I think it is because he put in the word, "intent". I think he is playing a bit of semantics here. 

[iacas]

2:14 for me…

[Vinsk]

17 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I think it is because he put in the word, "intent". I think he is playing a bit of semantics here. 

Well maybe. But when he starts that stuff he’s messing with feels. Maybe he doesn’t feel he lowers his arms with intent. Maybe it’s just so engrained he doesn’t realize he’s doing it with intent actually.