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(edited)

What I'm Working On: Getting the hands down quicker to prevent right wrist from "rolling over"

Swing Thoughts: Throwing the hands back behind me to start transition. Feeling as though body transitions toward target while hands start moving down and away

I moved away from the feeling of dropping my hands at the transition as that seemed to only make my arms feel even my stuck on the downswing. I read through my Evolvr thread and this one and decided to go back to what my previous swing thought that was more of an active throwing action then just letting my arms drop. I got two range sessions in during this time and things are definitely starting to feel better swing-wise

Ball Flight (7i): Now I was getting more pull draws where as before when trying to just drop the hands almost all were slight pulls with a heavy fade. I also chunked a 5 or so shots. I would imagine this was due to now having enough weight on front foot but I notice when I try to get my hands down quicker I am more likely to chunk it. 

 

- This was a pretty big pull draw but doesn't seem like I have quite as much rollover action around impact. Could be wrong though.

 

Takeaways

- When I felt more "connected" in my backswing (feeling of keeping arms in front of chest) my impact seemed to improve drastically but realized this on my last couple swings so haven't tested any further

- Overall, my impact and swing as whole FEEL a lot better these last two range sessions so I think I'm on the right track. I even had a couple shots I pured where you can hear the crisp sizzle after impact and the ball just cuts through the air. Which I was yet to feel this year before this

- Going to continue working on throwing hands down faster as well as not letting arms travel too much across my chest in the backswing, which should in turn help shorten my backswing a bit

 

Edited by ShaftFarmer
incorrect video link

My Swing

Taylormade M1 | Mizuno JPX 900 Forged (4-GW) | Titleist Vokey SM7 54/58 | Taylormade Spider X

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Austin…

This face is really quite closed here:

01.jpg

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

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31 minutes ago, iacas said:

Austin…

This face is really quite closed here:

01.jpg

I've noticed on my backswing the face is very closed as well so I think this may stem from a takeaway issue. 

329603122_ScreenShot2022-06-26at7_49_31PM.thumb.png.c5ca0866e39abc1b71f92fac88bd49fd.png

My Swing

Taylormade M1 | Mizuno JPX 900 Forged (4-GW) | Titleist Vokey SM7 54/58 | Taylormade Spider X

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Do that move Justin Thomas does. You take it back to the exact spot you have in the last post, and look. Then return the club to address and swing. The muscle memory will help (but not obviously 100% of the time). But it works remarkably well. Quite literally the only reason I became a decent golfer was fixing that exact problem, at that exact part of my swing. 

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Grip is very palmy, too.

palmy.jpg

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

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(edited)

What I'm Working On: Getting the hands down quicker to prevent right wrist from "rolling over"

Swing Thoughts: Throwing the hands back behind me to start transition. Trying to swing slow and controlled and feel a bit of palmar flexion in left wrist at beginning of downswing

Shot Type: 70% 7iron 

Ball Flight: Slight pulls but a very straight ball flight this range session

 

I tried to take it nice and slow this range session in terms of my swing speed, probably 70% swing speed on these. As far as the actual session went it was one of the better ones I've had in awhile. I didn't have a single ball that sliced or faded which has been my typical ball flight lately, almost all went pretty straight, aside from the slight pulls. Honestly, I was hoping the videos would show a bit more of a swing change considering my impact felt much better than normal but I can still tell I'm casting a bit too early and my arms are still getting caught behind me a bit. I've realized when I try and slow my swing down when working on this that my hands also slow down as well. I'm a bit confused how I should be practicing this move (hands coming down faster). I've been trying to go much more slower to make sure I'm actually making the correct move but because the move is a "firing" of the hands, I have trouble going slow. Anyone have any tips of this?

 

I've also been cognizant of my grip and keeping it more in my fingers, which I think I'm doing a better job of (in my shallow feeling video I could see my grip was a bit too palmy there). 

* I've also noticed when slowing my swing down I don't have near enough hip extension around impact as I should

 

Here I'm just trying to work on the feeling of the hands/arms on the downswing and getting club in front of me on the downswing.

 

I watched this video earlier this week and was curious if the drill where Tiger pauses at top and then tries to feel as though his hands beat his belt/hips to the ball would help me at all. What worries me about trying that is it will cause issue with my hips/lower body

 

Takeaways:

1. Arms still aren't coming down quick enough and thats forcing me to have to roll my right arm over through impact

2. This range session was definitely the best one I've had this year in terms of ball flight

3. Need to practice this move at a slower pace but having trouble with that

 

 

Edited by ShaftFarmer

My Swing

Taylormade M1 | Mizuno JPX 900 Forged (4-GW) | Titleist Vokey SM7 54/58 | Taylormade Spider X

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(edited)

What I'm Working On: Getting the hands down quicker to prevent right wrist from "rolling over"

Swing Thoughts: Throwing the hands back behind me to start transition. Right arm straightening to start downswing

Ball Flight: Most were relatively straight but basically all impact was out toward the toe

 

Was able to get out to the range 4-5 times last week and spent a lot of time trying to work on getting the hands down quicker. I think it's getting better but would still like to get my hands more in front of my belt through impact. As I mentioned before I'm having trouble feeling as though I'm making this move when I slow my swing down, because it's such a fast motion. I finally have my garage free again and I just ordered a hitting mat so hopefully on Wednesday I'll be able to start hitting some balls in the garage which I think will be a huge help. Also, face is still too closed on takeaway but wasn't paying any attention to that here. Is it possible the face being too closed could cause my toe issues?

- Sorry about the sun here! As you can see this was off the toe, which caused the club to turn a bit in my hands. The turning of the club doesn't happen every time I hit the toe but I do feel it quite a bit, especially with driver

 

 

Working on shallow feeling 

 

Should be able to get to range again tonight and was planning on doing the impact drill from Day 05 of covid practice plan. Starting off super slow and short and progressively adding speed/length. If any ball is pulled, start over. I feel like this would be a good way to help with the downswing delivery without doing a full swing. But if anyone else has any practice ideas for this I'm all ears!

Takeaways

1. Almost looks like I'm not getting my weight shifted to my front side early enough on backswing/transition 

2. I noticed my right wrist is pretty extended at top of backswing. Would I benefit from less of that and instead add the extension at the beginning of downswing?

3. Also have been hitting more fat shots than normal. I'm pretty sure when this happens I don't get my upper body re-centered enough around transition and it stays back behind ball

4. THIS IS TOUGH! 

Edited by ShaftFarmer
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My Swing

Taylormade M1 | Mizuno JPX 900 Forged (4-GW) | Titleist Vokey SM7 54/58 | Taylormade Spider X

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Forgot to mention on the DTL view, I seem to be early extending a bit

My Swing

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I have and still struggle with getting the transition and sequencing right. With my mistake still being gunning the hands from the top and getting steep. Honestly your hand path from the top and club angle at ~A5 look good to me (not that I'm a golf coach...). But I also began my journey trying to learn to drop the hands and shallow the club trying to force it manually. In your case, pushing hands behind you and straightening rear arm from the top.

One thing that's really been helping me is working on sequencing and the lower body. Given your sequencing from the top and how you're weight isn't very forward and hips are barely open at all at impact I figure there might be some value here somewhere. I've had success thinking of the time from ~A4 to ~A6 as getting everything into position to then whip the club head through the ball. Letting the swing develop so to speak instead of starting hitting at the ball from the top. As an ex-pitcher using the pitching analogy has helped me a lot.

You can think of the moment where the pitcher's front foot hits the ground (or maybe really just before) as the top off the back swing. Try to imagine from that point the pitcher rushing their hand forward at the same time and rate as they're opening their hips. It would look insane! And be much weaker and less accurate. The pitcher lets their arm kind of float as they open their hips and then their chest and then from that loaded/twisted position they throw through with their arm. I've tried to use that as a way to key in on the feel of letting the arms "float" (obviously they're physically active, I'm talking feel) into the right position from the top while they wait for the hips and chest to load up to get into position to flow through actively from ~A6.

The other way that's worked for me is to get into proper impact position (weight more forward and hips much more open than you've got right now) and then do flowing back and forth swings with the hands coming back to about waist high. Then when doing a full swing, concentrate on not rushing and just flowing your body from the top to that hands at the waist position and letting power flow from there through the unwinding and push from the hands.

Your mileage may vary of course. I just know how hard it can be to go from a great backswing like you've got through the transition to the down swing you know you can do and can give more consistent results. So I thought I'd throw out thoughts/feels that have been working for me.

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8 hours ago, ShaftFarmer said:

Takeaways

1. Almost looks like I'm not getting my weight shifted to my front side early enough on backswing/transition 

2. I noticed my right wrist is pretty extended at top of backswing. Would I benefit from less of that and instead add the extension at the beginning of downswing?

3. Also have been hitting more fat shots than normal. I'm pretty sure when this happens I don't get my upper body re-centered enough around transition and it stays back behind ball

4. THIS IS TOUGH! 

You probably could start your weight shift earlier in the backswing. 

It looks like your entire torso turn stalls out in the downswing. From A6 to A7, there isn't much rotation of the upper body around the spine. 

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@ShaftFarmer if you’re trying to throw your hands at the top, your trail elbow has to extend earlier. It looks like from the drills you posted that you’re trying to get super pitch elbow and externally rotate your shoulder to get your hands behind you.

For the drill I would suggest getting to A4 and straightening your right arm as the transition move. You can do the pump drill like that and hit little punch shots.

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Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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2 hours ago, billchao said:

@ShaftFarmer if you’re trying to throw your hands at the top, your trail elbow has to extend earlier. It looks like from the drills you posted that you’re trying to get super pitch elbow and externally rotate your shoulder to get your hands behind you.

For the drill I would suggest getting to A4 and straightening your right arm as the transition move. You can do the pump drill like that and hit little punch shots.

Yea, it is specifically the right elbow extending with out throwing the club out.

Yea, that specific move is just awkward.

You do not want to be making a big pump move with the arms such that the right elbow bends a ton. Its more right elbow moves up and down as the right elbow hinges like 50-60 degrees at most, and the wrist angles do not move much at all. 

 

"A good conversation is not designed to win the argument. It is designed to enjoy the exchange."

Matt "Dough", P.E.
My Game Golf Profile -
Click Here! (It's not a trap) fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver: :callaway: GBB Epic,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: :srixon: (4-PW)
Wedges:
:edel: Trapper (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :bushnell: Tour V2

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4 hours ago, billchao said:

@ShaftFarmer if you’re trying to throw your hands at the top, your trail elbow has to extend earlier. It looks like from the drills you posted that you’re trying to get super pitch elbow and externally rotate your shoulder to get your hands behind you.

For the drill I would suggest getting to A4 and straightening your right arm as the transition move. You can do the pump drill like that and hit little punch shots.

 

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

Yea, it is specifically the right elbow extending with out throwing the club out.

Yea, that specific move is just awkward.

You do not want to be making a big pump move with the arms such that the right elbow bends a ton. Its more right elbow moves up and down as the right elbow hinges like 50-60 degrees at most, and the wrist angles do not move much at all. 

 

Thanks for the input! I think I understand what you guys are saying. More right elbow extension to start transition which will throw club behind me as opposed to using shoulder turn to get the club? I'll get a video up soon of me working on this feel/pump drill with foam balls to confirm

My Swing

Taylormade M1 | Mizuno JPX 900 Forged (4-GW) | Titleist Vokey SM7 54/58 | Taylormade Spider X

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19 minutes ago, ShaftFarmer said:

More right elbow extension to start transition which will throw club behind me as opposed to using shoulder turn to get the club? I'll get a video up soon of me working on this feel/pump drill with foam balls to confirm

Probably depends on other factors, like how the club moves in the backswing. 

"A good conversation is not designed to win the argument. It is designed to enjoy the exchange."

Matt "Dough", P.E.
My Game Golf Profile -
Click Here! (It's not a trap) fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver: :callaway: GBB Epic,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: :srixon: (4-PW)
Wedges:
:edel: Trapper (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :bushnell: Tour V2

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@billchao @saevel25

Does this move look any better? This is me just feeling my right elbow extending more to start downswing. I think I may need to focus more on the hands going more toward my right pocket when extending my right elbow. As far as me actually hitting the ball I don't think I was near as shallow as I need to be but this was my first time trying this specific drill from the top of the backswing so still getting used to it. 

 

My Swing

Taylormade M1 | Mizuno JPX 900 Forged (4-GW) | Titleist Vokey SM7 54/58 | Taylormade Spider X

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8 hours ago, ShaftFarmer said:

 

Thanks for the input! I think I understand what you guys are saying. More right elbow extension to start transition which will throw club behind me as opposed to using shoulder turn to get the club? I'll get a video up soon of me working on this feel/pump drill with foam balls to confirm

As @saevel25 mentioned, how much of it you have to do depends on your swing, but the most extreme end is literally bring the club to A4, extend the trail elbow, bring the arms down as you turn to hit the ball. In that order.

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Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Worked a decent amount on the feel of shallowing club at transition. I think I'm getting closer but still not there yet. I took a bunch of slow-mo videos and realized at the top of transition the club has a nice shallowing path but when I get around A5, the club starts to tip out a bit. Need to figure out what's happening there.

 

Feels:

- Right arm straightening at transition while feeling a bit of external wrist rotation (trying to have right palm facing away from target to start downswing)

- Less right wrist extension at the top of the backswing

 

This first video is one of the bad ones I got. I figured this would be good to show. Notice how much the club tips out around A5. Almost looks like my right arm just takes over or something. 

 

 

Here's a couple better ones I got

 

Here's my position around A6. Is this a good spot to be in here or should the shaft be more in the position of the red line I drew? From what I can tell my wrists look to be in a decent position but the hands might be a bit too far away from my body. 

1716259067_ScreenShot2022-07-09at11_46_29AM.thumb.png.a1da086ae2a64b942f4b03e0ccfa490e.png

My Swing

Taylormade M1 | Mizuno JPX 900 Forged (4-GW) | Titleist Vokey SM7 54/58 | Taylormade Spider X

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2 minutes ago, ShaftFarmer said:

the club starts to tip out a bit

Of course. The club's laid off at the top and the hand path doesn't support the club continuing on that path. They have to go left too early, so that torques the club out.

01.jpg

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

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