Iron Offset

[CharlieB]

Could someone please explain offset to me.

I have always played Ping irons..Eye2+, i3 Oversized, G15. I bought a set of Titleist 714 AP1 irons that I cannot hit the ball out of  my shadow with. They are a nice looking club to my eye, but all I do is keep hitting behind the ball and dig up the turf. I’m going to sell them and go back to Ping, but I’m trying to figure out why these clubs are so different. I’m not a long ball hitter, but I at least I could hit the ball into the air with my G15’s. I think for next year I’m going to buy a set of G410’s. Confidence?

Edited September 2, 2020 by CharlieB

[iacas]

I don't think offset is why you keep hitting it fat.

Offset makes a club look more open than it is, so it helps people who slice by having them set up with the face closed. It marginally helps move the CG back a bit, too.

[sedmo]

I'm assuming you bought the 714s used? Have you checked shaft length and lie compared to your Pings?

[CharlieB]

Yes, they are both standard, but my Pings are -1” and the lie angle is yellow dot, or 1.5* upright. I just played 9 holes this morning with the Pings and has 8 bogey’s and one triple bogey for a 47.

The other thing with the AP1’s is they are standard flex and the Pings are senior flex. I guess the Pings just fit me better?

[Adam C]

Offset does a few different things.

It moves the CG of the club farther back. This will cause the club head to move farther forward in an attempt to align the cg and the handle of the club. The result is a little more loft, though it's really small. Could also cause a touch more toe closure but this would be even smaller than the loft change but would result in less slice.

The CG moved back can also give the iron a bit more gear effect so that toe hits draw back a bit compared to a club with the CG more forward.

It also in theory puts the hands slightly more ahead of the face compared to no offset. This tiny distance could in theory allow extra time to rotate the face closed and not slice it.

More offset clubs also generally fall closed at set up based on the offset in conjunction with the sole design, and this desire to naturally sit closed will also promote more draw or less slice.

That is how offset is meant to work. Of course none of that explains why you were hitting the Titleist's fat specifically, but most likely some combination of the way the club looks, sits, or maybe other variable like weight or length is causing the issues.

[TourSpoon]

  On 9/2/2020 at 9:18 PM, Adam C said:

It also in theory puts the hands slightly more ahead of the face compared to no offset. This tiny distance could in theory allow extra time to rotate the face closed and not slice it.

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And this is why offset is progressive meaning there is more offset in a 3 iron than in a pitching wedge which theoretically gives the golfer just a little more time to get the face square. Take an old Ping Eye 3 iron and compare it to an old Titleist blade and you will see the difference clearly as the blade is often referred to a butterknife with good reason. Historically, I can tell you that for the average golfer Ping came in and saved them from butterknives and started a revolution in golf club design. Many more designs followed with increased offset including TA 845s, Titleist DCIs and other players clubs as well as a slew of game improvement clubs. Here is a pic of Rickie's butterknife and it gives me the shakes too. Below this picture is arguably the ugliest club ever made, The Cleveland VAS+. 

[boogielicious]

  On 9/2/2020 at 12:48 PM, CharlieB said:

Could someone please explain offset to me.

I have always played Ping irons..Eye2+, i3 Oversized, G15. I bought a set of Titleist 714 AP1 irons that I cannot hit the ball out of  my shadow with. They are a nice looking club to my eye, but all I do is keep hitting behind the ball and dig up the turf. I’m going to sell them and go back to Ping, but I’m trying to figure out why these clubs are so different. I’m not a long ball hitter, but I at least I could hit the ball into the air with my G15’s. I think for next year I’m going to buy a set of G410’s. Confidence?

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I found the AP1 to be very light. I had the 716 and they had a XP90 shaft with a swing weight of D0. Not sure if this could be the issue, but when I switched to a heavier shaft, I had better contact.

[uitar9]

Don't have much of a clue about club tech ...but...is the grip/shaft/blade length a touch longer, causing it to bottom out sooner, digging in behind the ball, all other setup being equal. 

[ncates00]

  On 9/2/2020 at 9:18 PM, Adam C said:

Of course none of that explains why you were hitting the Titleist's fat specifically, but most likely some combination of the way the club looks, sits, or maybe other variable like weight or length is causing the issues.

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Or the most important factor

 

  On 9/3/2020 at 12:42 PM, uitar9 said:

Don't have much of a clue about club tech ...but...is the grip/shaft/blade length a touch longer, causing it to bottom out sooner, digging in behind the ball, all other setup being equal. 

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...the person's swing.

[CharlieB]

Actually the Titleist specification reads the club is a D1 swing weight. Anyhow, I put them on Craigslist for sale today. 

l‘ll play my Pings for the rest of this year. I would like to thank AdamC for all of his input through this.

Edited September 3, 2020 by CharlieB