2 Person Scramble - Hitting a Provisional?

[Wizzard44]

If your were playing in a 2 person scramble. Your partner hits his tee shot into the fairway but rather short. You hit your ball longer but towards the trees. You decide to call a provisional ball and hit your ball over because you are not sure if it is lost or not. Your second shot has a similar result. You then proceed down the fairway and both players play the first players ball which is in the fairway, still declaring provisional ball. As you proceed toward the wooded area you find your original ball you hit off the tee block. Question is- can you play the original ball? Can you both play the original ball? Do you have to play the original ball now that is has been found as in traditional golf? Thoughts?

[iacas]

Scrambles aren’t a recognized form of golf, so there is no rule here. I’d think you shouldn’t have even hit a second tee shot yourself.

I think if you both hit the first ball you’re playing it.

[Mr22putt]

1 hour ago, Wizzard44 said:

If your were playing in a 2 person scramble. Your partner hits his tee shot into the fairway but rather short. You hit your ball longer but towards the trees. You decide to call a provisional ball and hit your ball over because you are not sure if it is lost or not. Your second shot has a similar result. You then proceed down the fairway and both players play the first players ball which is in the fairway, still declaring provisional ball. As you proceed toward the wooded area you find your original ball you hit off the tee block. Question is- can you play the original ball? Can you both play the original ball? Do you have to play the original ball now that is has been found as in traditional golf? Thoughts?

IMO....because you went ahead and both hit the shorter ball in the fairway 1st...then that ball(s) is now in play.

Why would you hit a provisional anyways?....if you don't find your 1st ball....then play the shorter one in the fairway....if you did decide to play the provisional one....you both both would then be hitting your 4th shot now (stroke and distance penalty associated with the provisional ball)...vs hitting your 2nd shots from the shorter ball from the fairway.

[Grinde6]

Its a scramble, so like @iacas said, there is no rule here.  The provisional has me a bit puzzled.  Why, if you already have one in the fairway, would you hit a provisional?  Even if you don't find your first, are you really going to hit 4 from there vs 2 from lets say even 100 yards back?  If you hit the ball in the fairway, which was your partners, then that ball is in play...the provisional would have been on your ball only.

[phillyk]

2 hours ago, Wizzard44 said:

If your were playing in a 2 person scramble. Your partner hits his tee shot into the fairway but rather short. You hit your ball longer but towards the trees. You decide to call a provisional ball and hit your ball over because you are not sure if it is lost or not. Your second shot has a similar result. You then proceed down the fairway and both players play the first players ball which is in the fairway, still declaring provisional ball. As you proceed toward the wooded area you find your original ball you hit off the tee block. Question is- can you play the original ball? Can you both play the original ball? Do you have to play the original ball now that is has been found as in traditional golf? Thoughts?

Uh really? There is no provisional in scrambles.  If a ball is lost, why on earth would you want to use a guys provisional potentially hitting 4?  If I were the ruling body, I'd say that after you hit from the first guys tee shot position, that's it.  If you end up finding your ball, you should've looked first, not after, tough luck.

Edited October 9, 2020 by phillyk

[Double Mocha Man]

But... but... but... your original ball ended up in the center of the fairway, 200 yards longer than the other drives.  Under a leaf and painted green.

[Wizzard44]

22 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

But... but... but... your original ball ended up in the center of the fairway, 200 yards longer than the other drives.  Under a leaf and painted green.

Obviously the question is way beyond your capability to understand it. 

Just now, Wizzard44 said:

Obviously the question is way beyond your capability to understand it. 

 

Scramble-Format-Rules.pdf

Obviously there are rules for a provisional ball during a scramble. 

22 hours ago, phillyk said:

Uh really? There is no provisional in scrambles.  If a ball is lost, why on earth would you want to use a guys provisional potentially hitting 4?  If I were the ruling body, I'd say that after you hit from the first guys tee shot position, that's it.  If you end up finding your ball, you should've looked first, not after, tough luck.

 

Scramble-Format-Rules.pdf

23 hours ago, iacas said:

Scrambles aren’t a recognized form of golf, so there is no rule here. I’d think you shouldn’t have even hit a second tee shot yourself.

I think if you both hit the first ball you’re playing it.

 

Scramble-Format-Rules.pdf

23 hours ago, Grinde6 said:

Its a scramble, so like @iacas said, there is no rule here.  The provisional has me a bit puzzled.  Why, if you already have one in the fairway, would you hit a provisional?  Even if you don't find your first, are you really going to hit 4 from there vs 2 from lets say even 100 yards back?  If you hit the ball in the fairway, which was your partners, then that ball is in play...the provisional would have been on your ball only.

 

Scramble-Format-Rules.pdf

[Double Mocha Man]

42 minutes ago, Wizzard44 said:

Obviously the question is way beyond your capability to understand it. 

Obviously Wizard, there was an earlier mention in the forum about golf balls lost in the fairway under a leaf that I guess you missed.  My comment was in reference to the earlier quip suggesting one paint their golf ball green so as not to lose it.

But thanks for the compliment anyway.

[Wizzard44]

Apparently I did miss it. All good. 

[Double Mocha Man]

13 minutes ago, Wizzard44 said:

Apparently I did miss it. All good. 

No problem. All is well.

[iacas]

7 hours ago, Wizzard44 said:

Obviously there are rules for a provisional ball during a scramble. 

There are not. A scramble is not a recognized form of golf. It’s played and all the Rules have to say about it is here and in 9C.

 

There is no Rule 36.

[Wizzard44]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

There are not. A scramble is not a recognized form of golf. It’s played and all the Rules have to say about it is here and in 9C.

 

There is no Rule 36.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/committee-procedures/rule-9.html

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, Wizzard44 said:

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/committee-procedures/rule-9.html

Again, that's not a set of rules. It's simply an acknowledgement that there's another form of golf called a scramble.

It even says there are many variations.

You asked, we gave you answers. You should have just played the ball in the fairway. Playing a provisional made no sense unless BOTH balls were possibly OB/lost. And if so, you should have both hit the provisional.

[DaveP043]

19 hours ago, Wizzard44 said:

Obviously the question is way beyond your capability to understand it. 

Scramble-Format-Rules.pdf 203.71 kB · 3 downloads

I don't know where those rules are from, but the format (using a hyphen) makes it clear that these are NOT part of the current rules of Golf.  The later rule referenced does mention the scramble format, but doesn't define specific rules, other than acknowledging that there are a variety of variations.

 

On 10/9/2020 at 12:06 PM, Wizzard44 said:

You then proceed down the fairway and both players play the first players ball which is in the fairway, still declaring provisional ball.

For every variety of scramble that I've played, once you take a stroke at one of the balls in play, that becomes THE ball in play.  You should have located both balls before you played the shot from the fairway.  Once you've played that one, you cannot change your mind and player the second (longer) tee shot.

[Wizzard44]

4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I don't know where those rules are from, but the format (using a hyphen) makes it clear that these are NOT part of the current rules of Golf.  The later rule referenced does mention the scramble format, but doesn't define specific rules, other than acknowledging that there are a variety of variations.

 

For every variety of scramble that I've played, once you take a stroke at one of the balls in play, that becomes THE ball in play.  You should have located both balls before you played the shot from the fairway.  Once you've played that one, you cannot change your mind and player the second (longer) tee shot.

I am not saying my example is right or wrong just asking for opinions. This set of rules is from the Northern California golf association obviously they have an allowance for playing a provisional ball during a 2 person scramble. Bryson DeChambeau is an Alumni from there. 

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, Wizzard44 said:

I am not saying my example is right or wrong just asking for opinions. This set of rules is from the Northern California golf association obviously they have an allowance for playing a provisional ball during a 2 person scramble. Bryson DeChambeau is an Alumni from there. 

This appears to be the current set of rules (2019) for the NCGA for scrambles, with no mention of a Provisional:

https://ncga.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Scramble-Format-Rules-Revised-2019-1.pdf

However, both sets of rules tell you that if you play a shot on one of the balls in play, that IS the one and only ball in play, you cannot change your mind.  In your case, once you've played a shot from the short straight drive, you cannot change your mind and decide instead to take the longer ball.