Deliberate Slice

[Sclaffer]

I am seeking detailed instruction on how to hit a deliberate hook and slice. Most usually with a mid iron, after I have put my drive behind some trees.

For brevity I will only ask about the slice (the hook should mostly be the opposite). Google searches simply tell me to set up aiming left, point club at target and swing normally. The ball is not curving nearly as much as I hoped.

Forty years ago I found it much easier to slice (or hook). But in those days I had blades and swung differently. I am now using Ping G5 irons with graphite shafts. Maybe they are hard to slice?

1. I always believed and read that an out to in swing path causes a slice. So if my normal shot is straight (not, but let’s assume it is) then my swing path at contact is straight and simply aiming somewhere else should not cause any side spin. However, I do get a little bit of a fade by aiming left.
2. I always believed and read that pointing the club face right of the swing path would cause a push. That is the ball sets off to the right in a straight line (not curving).  The ball definitely goes right if I aim the club face right, but I am getting a little bit of curve as well.
3. The less changes required the better. However, it seems to me that for a slice round a tree (not just a wee fade) I need to do more than just set up left and point the club face at target.

What is your experience with the following in relation to promoting a slice:

Weaker grip? (to decrease supination through impact)

Tighter grip? (to decrease wrist action)

Address ball further forward? (more likely club is moving back in)

Stand closer to ball? (more upright swing likely to be out to in)

Steeper takeaway? (more upright swing likely to be out to in)

Deliberately try not to roll wrists through impact?

Swing faster? (to leave the hands and club face behind and open)

Use a lower loft club? (not sure why)

Some other adjustments/factors?

Sorry if this has been done before. I could not find it.

Thanks folks.

[billchao]

The ball starts roughly where the face is pointing and curves away from the path.

When I want to hit an intentional slice or big fade, I set up with my feet well left of the target, face open and pointed between my stance line and the target, and with the ball forward of my normal playing position. Swing left while holding the face open.

[boogielicious]

I agree with @billchao here. Playing it forward will help because it will be less in to out at that point. If you want lower flight, use a lower lofted club. It will launch higher because of the ball position. Also, practice these at the range so you know how to do it on the course. 
 

[WillieT]

What these guys said.  A cool trick I have learned to do is get on the narrow patch beside my shop (roughly 24' long) and try to work the ball around to the front.  It requires what they are saying.  You would be surprised at how much it helps when in the trees as I see the tree as the corner of the shop and work it around it.  I am much better as slicing around the shop than hooking....habitually out to in.   Off season plan - to focus on the opposite - the deliberate hook.  

On 12/12/2020 at 8:54 AM, billchao said:

The ball starts roughly where the face is pointing and curves away from the path.

When I want to hit an intentional slice or big fade, I set up with my feet well left of the target, face open and pointed between my stance line and the target, and with the ball forward of my normal playing position. Swing left while holding the face open.

 

On 12/12/2020 at 10:39 AM, boogielicious said:

I agree with @billchao here. Playing it forward will help because it will be less in to out at that point. If you want lower flight, use a lower lofted club. It will launch higher because of the ball position. Also, practice these at the range so you know how to do it on the course. 
 

 

[billchao]

On 12/12/2020 at 10:39 AM, boogielicious said:

If you want lower flight, use a lower lofted club.

It should also be noted that lower lofted clubs are easier to curve.

5 hours ago, WillieT said:

What these guys said.  A cool trick I have learned to do is get on the narrow patch beside my shop (roughly 24' long) and try to work the ball around to the front.  It requires what they are saying.  You would be surprised at how much it helps when in the trees as I see the tree as the corner of the shop and work it around it.  I am much better as slicing around the shop than hooking....habitually out to in.   Off season plan - to focus on the opposite - the deliberate hook.  

Learning to shape shots around objects is a useful skill I unfortunately have a lot of experience with.

[Sclaffer]

On 12/12/2020 at 3:54 PM, billchao said:

The ball starts roughly where the face is pointing and curves away from the path.

When I want to hit an intentional slice or big fade, I set up with my feet well left of the target, face open and pointed between my stance line and the target, and with the ball forward of my normal playing position. Swing left while holding the face open.

I understand "feet aiming well left". But if I just shuffle my feet to aim more left and the rest of my body follows so that it has the normal relationship to my feet, all I am doing is aiming left. There must be some other change to cause the shot to curve, Do you aim your feet left and consciously not turn hips and shoulders? Or are you changing the swing plane some other way?

I also understand "face open". That should make the ball travel to the open side; in a straight line.

Thanks

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Sclaffer said:

I understand "feet aiming well left". But if I just shuffle my feet to aim more left and the rest of my body follows so that it has the normal relationship to my feet, all I am doing is aiming left. There must be some other change to cause the shot to curve, Do you aim your feet left and consciously not turn hips and shoulders? Or are you changing the swing plane some other way?

I also understand "face open". That should make the ball travel to the open side; in a straight line.

Thanks

You aim everything left. Your setup stays the same except instead of being oriented to the target, it’s well to the left.

The only thing that doesn’t change as much is the club face. If you’re normally set up (as I am) 2° left with your body (a rough average of feet, knees, hips, shoulders), and 2° right (open) with the face, you might shift those to 15° open with the body and 7° left (still 8° open to the body) with the face.

But the grip is round so you can orient the club in your hands anywhere around that 360°.

[billchao]

2 hours ago, Sclaffer said:

I understand "feet aiming well left". But if I just shuffle my feet to aim more left and the rest of my body follows so that it has the normal relationship to my feet, all I am doing is aiming left. There must be some other change to cause the shot to curve, Do you aim your feet left and consciously not turn hips and shoulders? Or are you changing the swing plane some other way?

I also understand "face open". That should make the ball travel to the open side; in a straight line.

Thanks

 

As @iacas said, your whole body orientation lines up left, with the club rotated open in your hands.

I like to deliberately make a low and left exit practice swing ala Tiger Woods. It helps me to keep the path going left of my intended target instead of subconsciously swinging out right and simply hitting a push because I’m aiming left.

[Double Mocha Man]

I didn't see it directly mentioned... if you are hitting toward a target, such as the green, such as the pin, you'll want to accommodate for the added loft from opening the face. You'll want to go down a club or maybe even two to get the same distance you normally get from that club.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Double Mocha Man

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I didn't see it directly mentioned... if you are hitting toward a target, such as the green, such as the pin, you'll want to accommodate for the added loft from opening the face. You'll want to go down a club or maybe even two to get the same distance you normally get from that club.

The club will not necessarily have more loft.

[Double Mocha Man]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

The club will not necessarily have more loft.

If you open the clubface and do no manipulation at address or during the swing it will have more loft.  Otherwise yes, I agree, there are instances where the face can be delofted to find its way back to its original loft. 

Also, it depends on how much you open the face.  A degree or so, then you'll probably cancel that out with a hands ahead impact position.  For most golfers, with a healthy open face, they've increased effective loft.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Double Mocha Man

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

… and do no manipulation at address or during the swing…

Uhmmmm.

[Sclaffer]

Thanks guys. For year I have been labouring under the idea that swing path caused a slice/hook and face open/shut caused a push/pull. Seems it is the other way round. Suddenly opening the face for a slice and standing open to get the end direction right makes sense. Off the the range to test this.

 

[boogielicious]

4 hours ago, Sclaffer said:

Thanks guys. For year I have been labouring under the idea that swing path caused a slice/hook and face open/shut caused a push/pull. Seems it is the other way round. Suddenly opening the face for a slice and standing open to get the end direction right makes sense. Off the the range to test this.

 

Bal flight is determined by a combination of club head path and face angle at impact. Check out the ball flights laws in this thread.

 

 

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Sclaffer said:

Thanks guys. For year I have been labouring under the idea that swing path caused a slice/hook and face open/shut caused a push/pull. Seems it is the other way round. Suddenly opening the face for a slice and standing open to get the end direction right makes sense. Off the the range to test this.

As Scott says, it’s both. Face is starting path mostly, difference in part relative to face is curve.

[WilliamB]

Three things that allow me to fade the ball are:

1) Aiming left of target

2) Rotating my hips a bit early so my upper half stays behind the ball moreso then normal. Not a very technical explanation, but somehow it works for me. 

3) Weakening my right hand grip a bit. 

To draw the ball,  I do somewhat the opposite. 

[RayG]

For the most part you will get all kinds of 'tips' on how to fade, slice, hook, draw the ball on command. Especially for the situation you mentioned of being in trouble. "Clubface aimed at target, open stance, grip to your feet- NOT - the target line, swing normal, etc..." And someone will say "it doesn't work" or something. Well, chances are it won't. In this particular case, what you need to do is just try different ways to slice or hook to ball. How do people slice off the tee? With an open face and an out to in path. Try that on the range. This is something, IMHO, that is definitely "Feel" dependent. Maybe you want a high slice, or a low fade- two different approaches are required. The "Swing Normal" part is a joke. If you are stuck in a trouble situation, there little chance of being able to "Swing Normal". As I said, practice doing it on the range to see what works for you. then maybe try it while hunched over (as if you are stuck under a branch), then try to hit it high, then low. No situation will be exactly the same- so learn what path and face angle does what to the flight. Knowing THAT, you can adapt the swing to match the situation.