A “Solution” to the Growing Number of Gap Wedges

[boogielicious]

Just now, onthehunt526 said:

Scott I don’t know what kind of irons you have, but I’m guessing not T400s? Or Epic Stars?

Mizuno MP59 and Titleist 716CB. I had 716 AP1 but I hooked the heck out of them. I had trouble aiming them. I agree the numbering on the newer, multi-material, hot-face irons is confusing and misleading. Some are almost like hybrids with their tech. But I just ignore the hype anyway. I just think of my clubs in distance, which BTW, is getting less and less as I age!😜

[TourSpoon]

On 12/31/2020 at 5:05 PM, onthehunt526 said:

Ping puts S and L on theirs, (if they’re part if the iron set) and so does Cleveland on their SmartSole wedges, and Mizuno on their JPX 900 and 919 wedges. 
 

The problem causing all of this bullshit, is the long end of the iron set. You dont need a 18 or 19 degree 4-iron, I don’t care where you say you’re putting the weight. It’s a myth, it’s 4-6 mm lower than a blade, that’s all. So 21° should be sufficient for a 4-iron, and no more of this 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 4.5, 5, 5.5, 5.5, 7 gapping shit. The long end is too compressed and the short end is far apart. Titleist to their credit does do this in the meat of the T400 set. I think it goes 20, 23, 26, 29, 33, 38, 43, 48, 53 something like that i’d have to look. I’m not saying that 4° between every club is correct, I’m saying the Compressed longer iron gaps are creating the wedge problem. 
 

The 4-iron is can not be hit consistently by one carrying SGI irons anyway. But loft compression at the long end is causing these dumb ass lofted pitching wedge lofts and the need for 2-3 clubs between your “P club” and your traditional sand wedge.

Loft compression in the long irons is what has caused this.

This is exactly what I have been saying for years.....

 

The average player having 3 degrees between their long irons is just fooling themselves in thinking they are gapped correctly just because they came from the manufacturer that way. In a perfect world, with a tour swing 3 degrees between a 5 and 6 iron could be 12-15 (or whatever) yards, but for the average hack, it could be 3 yards (or even negative yardage). Anyway, I am with you. Call me a traditionalist or whatever you want there is something that would irk me if my "P" club was 38*. Anyway, I am sleeping fine, but I have found this topic interesting for a while now as a self proclaimed loft geek. 

Play on gentlemen! 

 

[ChetlovesMer]

On 12/29/2020 at 7:57 PM, onthehunt526 said:

This is why I thought that when the Ben Hogan Ft. Worth 15 irons first came out, the lofts on the bottom were brilliant because you could literally call a club whatever the hell you wanted.

Seems like Cleveland has heard what you and some others have been saying. They are now stamping lofts on the bottom of their irons along with the iron number.

[onthehunt526]

On 9/8/2021 at 9:50 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

Seems like Cleveland has heard what you and some others have been saying. They are now stamping lofts on the bottom of their irons along with the iron number.

They've been doing that since the CG16 irons where have you been? Not on all models but at least the models since 2017.  It seems that instead continuing to make cast Srixon irons, I think that the parent company decided that the cast irons were going to come from Cleveland/XXIO and the forged from Srixon/XXIO... (I know it makes no sense and it's only slightly related but I'm coming back)... Lofts with the club number is not a new thing, as a matter of fact I believe at least 2-3 Companies back in the 90s were doing it, Tommy Armour, Titleist on the DCIs (DCI Black and DCI Gold), Some knockoffs did as well. 

SGI static lofts DO NOT have to be so damn strong... 

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, onthehunt526 said:

They've been doing that since the CG16 irons where have you been?

Um... Ohio? 

1 hour ago, onthehunt526 said:

SGI static lofts DO NOT have to be so damn strong... 

I agree with you. But I get why they do it. 

Everyone has different opinions on the subject so the manufacturers try to make something for everyone. Personally, I like my 7-iron in 30-31 degree-ish and my PW at around 45. That seems to set up well for the gapping I play. But I know people who will swear a 7-iron has to be 33-35 degrees and a PW has to be 46-49 degrees. By the same token I play with a guy who has a 27.5 degree 7 iron and a 43 degree PW. Different strokes for different folks. 

I find it funny that some golfers get so mad about "jacked lofts". One guy I talked to actually said it's "UNFAIR". And "There should be a rule against it." His feeling was it was unfair that somebody would hit their 28 degree 7-iron longer than he hit his 34 degree 7-iron. To which all I could think was if you are so upset about it. "Get a different 7-iron." 

It seems so odd that people get so mad about this topic. You don't get any more or fewer points for hitting a 7-iron as apposed to a 6-iron. 

[onthehunt526]

11 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Um... Ohio? 

I agree with you. But I get why they do it. 

Everyone has different opinions on the subject so the manufacturers try to make something for everyone. Personally, I like my 7-iron in 30-31 degree-ish and my PW at around 45. That seems to set up well for the gapping I play. But I know people who will swear a 7-iron has to be 33-35 degrees and a PW has to be 46-49 degrees. By the same token I play with a guy who has a 27.5 degree 7 iron and a 43 degree PW. Different strokes for different folks. 

I find it funny that some golfers get so mad about "jacked lofts". One guy I talked to actually said it's "UNFAIR". And "There should be a rule against it." His feeling was it was unfair that somebody would hit their 28 degree 7-iron longer than he hit his 34 degree 7-iron. To which all I could think was if you are so upset about it. "Get a different 7-iron." 

It seems so odd that people get so mad about this topic. You don't get any more or fewer points for hitting a 7-iron as apposed to a 6-iron. 

It's not per se unfair, I just feel that the OEMs are making the longer clubs basically nearly unhittable. Most SGI sets don't have a 3-iron anymore and in GI sets they're becoming extinct.

The problem is the "Oh Shit, we made a 27 degree 7-iron, and a 41 degree PW, our 4-iron is 18 degrees but it might as well be a goddamn fire poker"... The gaps are not consistent, that's what bugs me... really close together in the long clubs... Then... Oh Shit the 7-iron is 27... we only have 2 clubs till we get to the PW... So let's do what Nickent,  Callaway, and Yonex tried... and Honma still does, Make a 10-iron... Or do what Ben Hogan did with the Ft. Worth 15, just stamp a loft.

 

[pganapathy]

2 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

SGI static lofts DO NOT have to be so damn strong... 

Unfortunately, YES they do.  Because most SGI clubs have a low CG, they make getting the ball airborne much easier.  Which means you need lesser loft in order to hit the correct launch window.  Otherwise, your 7 iron will launch like a 9 iron or PW.

[ChetlovesMer]

40 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

The problem is the "Oh Shit, we made a 27 degree 7-iron, and a 41 degree PW, our 4-iron is 18 degrees but it might as well be a goddamn fire poker"... The gaps are not consistent, that's what bugs me... really close together in the long clubs... Then... Oh Shit the 7-iron is 27... we only have 2 clubs till we get to the PW... So let's do what Nickent,  Callaway, and Yonex tried... and Honma still does, Make a 10-iron... Or do what Ben Hogan did with the Ft. Worth 15, just stamp a loft.

 

I don't see that as a problem at all. 
Some people want a 27 degree 7 iron. Maybe they don't need tight gaps at the bottom of their bag? I know guys who use their sand wedge for every single shot inside 50 yards. They don't need perfect gapping down at that end. At the top end they don't use the 4-iron (fire poker). They have 4 hybrids, a 7 wood, a 9 wood whatever. 

There are still plenty of sets being sold with "traditional" lofts. If you like traditional lofts, there are plenty to choose from. You have options. Folks who like 27 degree 7-irons have options. Seems like everyone gets what they want. I still don't see a problem. 

[onthehunt526]

7 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I don't see that as a problem at all. 
Some people want a 27 degree 7 iron. Maybe they don't need tight gaps at the bottom of their bag? I know guys who use their sand wedge for every single shot inside 50 yards. They don't need perfect gapping down at that end. At the top end they don't use the 4-iron (fire poker). They have 4 hybrids, a 7 wood, a 9 wood whatever. 

There are still plenty of sets being sold with "traditional" lofts. If you like traditional lofts, there are plenty to choose from. You have options. Folks who like 27 degree 7-irons have options. Seems like everyone gets what they want. I still don't see a problem. 

Good point.

I understand why they have to do it, which is why you would be stuck with the need for 5 and sometimes 6 “wedges” in the bag. It’s a problem for some and not others.

I tried weakening my lofts on my ZX5 irons. I think I messed that up. They don’t fly the way that I’m used to, way too damn high. So I’ve been playing my kind of traditional lofted Z785 irons as of late… 

[Colins69]

On 12/24/2020 at 8:14 PM, onthehunt526 said:

 If you’re having to put 2 Gap Wedges between your PW and SW, why not just call your current PW a 10-iron? I mean yes it’s a little radical, but so is 3 gap wedges. 

That's why I've got Nickent 3DX Hybrid irons, I have a 10 iron which works for me. Most sets of irons have 8" or more of loft gap between the 9 and the wedge, it's ok if your good enough to hit a half'ish or climb into the Sandiron but I'm not. I'm not too bad hitting a strong 9 8 7 etc but the wedges I'm more likely to hit skinny or fat, I think why there is so many wedges is all about the Money...