National Anthems Before Sporting Events

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Ironically, the concept of the anthem being a problem was something I never heard of before the NFL players began kneeling for it. Then it all really blew up.

I debated this topic in college.

But I think for most people they started hearing about it when Kaepernick and others started their stuff.

[ChetlovesMer]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

I debated this topic in college.

But I think for most people they started hearing about it when Kaepernick and others started their stuff.

I remember it becoming a thing back in the middle 90's when Chris Jackson refused to stand for the National Anthem. I remember he got fined every game he wouldn't stand. He eventually came to an agreement with either the NBA or his team (can't remember who he played for... Denver, maybe?) where he would stand, but not look at the flag. He chose instead to stand up, look down and pray during the anthem. 

[DaveP043]

13 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I remember it becoming a thing back in the middle 90's when Chris Jackson refused to stand for the National Anthem. I remember he got fined every game he wouldn't stand. He eventually came to an agreement with either the NBA or his team (can't remember who he played for... Denver, maybe?) where he would stand, but not look at the flag. He chose instead to stand up, look down and pray during the anthem. 

The earliest protest during an Anthem that I remember was during the 1968 Olympics, but  Kaepernick seems to have led the more recent and more prevalent trend of protests during the Anthem.  Those protests have led to serious differences of opinion, between those who see protest as an insult and those who see protest as a sincere desire to improve things.  Team management has taken a few different steps to avoid the controversy, allowing players to remain off the field (or court) while the anthem is played, or eliminating the anthem all together. 

So now we have a law, which seems to me to be a reaction to all of this.  I'm afraid that the next law will require players to behave in a certain way during the Anthem.  I believe that government should stay out of the issue, while at the same time hoping that the Anthem will continue to be played.

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

But I think for most people they started hearing about it when Kaepernick and others started their stuff.

The biggest incident, and probably due to social media, was Kaepernick for me. I am sure that it happened before, but I never heard of a big incident of an athlete not standing up for national anthem. 

I voted No for this thread. I don't think there should be laws to require athletes or people to stand for the national anthem. For me, me it violates first amendment rights. Not standing is a form of protest, and their action is a form of speech. Just like other actions, like burning an American flag is protected form of speech. 

 

[mattm16]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

How many warning points would you like to receive, David?

Why would he get a warning point?  He had different views so what?  I thought that you are not allowed to call people names?  Or does that only apply if you agree with the moderators?

[Shorty]

47 minutes ago, mattm16 said:

Why would he get a warning point?  He had different views so what?  I thought that you are not allowed to call people names?  Or does that only apply if you agree with the moderators?

Maybe if someone who is highly articulate presents an argument calling a someone a "butthead" it is something that a thick skinned person should be able to handle. Moderators step in when they see fit, not when a member who has dug himself a hole can't get out of it on his own.

My experience is that the moderators step in when a line is crossed and everyone starts with a clean sheet the moment after.

 

Interesting how it's OK to be called a "sucker" or "loser" but the line is drawn at "butthead".

Edited June 1, 2021 by Shorty

[phillyk]

56 minutes ago, mattm16 said:

Why would he get a warning point?  He had different views so what?  I thought that you are not allowed to call people names?  Or does that only apply if you agree with the moderators?

He wasn’t. They were both talked to separately. You can say an argument is ridiculous but calling someone personally stupid or related is not ok. 

Topic is on the National Anthem, let’s keep it there. 

[ChetlovesMer]

I consider myself a very patriotic individual. I've lived in other countries and firmly believe that even though the US has its share of issues, it's still the greatest country to be a citizen of. I fly an American Flag in my front yard pretty much every day. 

I also like The National Anthem. When I hear it I do think about those men and women at Fort McHenry who kept the flag flying during the bombardment of 1812. 

Having said that, I am not for making a law requiring the playing of it before a sports event. I have several reasons including:

1. What does any sporting event have to do with the National Anthem? I get that its tradition. But in reality a baseball game or football game is just a game. 
2. Anytime you make a law forcing somebody to do something you strengthen the resolve of those who oppose it. 
3. Where do you draw the line? Baseball, Basketball and Football only? College and/or pro? High School sports? Pee-wee league? What about a game of darts in a bar? Bowling? How about the badminton game we just had in the backyard? 
4. I'm also a "small government" guy. I would consider myself to be very laissez faire. I think the government should try to avoid getting involved in the free market when ever possible. 
5. But my number one reason for not being in favor of this law is that it feels like you are trying to legislate people into loving their country. I love my country, no amount of playing or not playing the national anthem is going to change that. (Taxing me to death as you currently are... well... but that's off topic.) I know people who hate America, no amount of forcing them to listen to the National Anthem is going to change that. You can't legislate people into loving their country any more than you legislate people into liking Brussel sprouts. 

Again, I like The National Anthem. I feel very patriotic. I like hearing it before a sporting event. But making it a law feels forced. I'm not for it. 

[saevel25]

I think it's just a lot of romanticizing what USA use to be like. Times change, and people want to use the government to force it back to the way it use to be. Forcing people people to sing or stand for the national anthem to me is nothing more than what is done in totalitarian countries do.

[Billy Z]

I think many people are getting tired of the cancel culture and all the things that go along with it, and don't want to see the national anthem added to the list of things that are taboo. If you cannot be patriotic to the country you live in then what are you doing here in the first place. A lot of people have voiced dismay for the United States but wouldn't dare live in another country. The national anthem represents this country as well as America's pastime, and they seem to go together well to many people. I think a big problem is that people are tired of things being pushed to the wayside that mean a lot to them.

[saevel25]

3 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

I think many people are getting tired of the cancel culture and all the things that go along with it, and don't want to see the national anthem added to the list of things that are taboo. If you cannot be patriotic to the country you live in then what are you doing here in the first place. A lot of people have voiced dismay for the United States but wouldn't dare live in another country. The national anthem represents this country as well as America's pastime, and they seem to go together well to many people. I think a big problem is that people are tired of things being pushed to the wayside that mean a lot to them.

It's not cancel culture for a disenfranchised group in this country to not want to stand for an anthem that symbolizes so much pain in their history. 

 

[Billy Z]

3 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

It's not cancel culture for a disenfranchised group in this country to not want to stand for an anthem that symbolizes so much pain in their history. 

 

What group is disenfranchised?

[mdl]

1 minute ago, Billy Z said:

What group is disenfranchised?

Oh boy. You live in Detroit. Forget American history, do you know the history of your own city?

[Billy Z]

21 minutes ago, mdl said:

Oh boy. You live in Detroit. Forget American history, do you know the history of your own city?

My comment was made for the present day not 50 years ago.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, Billy Z said:

My comment was made for the present day not 50 years ago.

You need to be more enlightened if you are making that comment.

[mdl]

2 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

My comment was made for the present day not 50 years ago.

Yeah. I meant present day.

Well, present day plus the last couple hundred years...

[Billy Z]

Actually, I understand what you are saying and agree with it somewhat, none the less the United States of America is still the greatest country in the world. It has had a lot of faults like any other thing that matures over time, you have failures and successes. Although I wonder when asked, what country is the greatest in the world, what people would answer? Maybe this is getting off topic and I apologize, but I like the tradition of the national anthem at baseball games as many do, and don't want to see it canceled. I guess if it were canceled, we wouldn't have to worry about disrespecting it when it is being played like kneeling and such. 

[saevel25]

38 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

Maybe this is getting off topic and I apologize, but I like the tradition of the national anthem at baseball games as many do, and don't want to see it canceled.

It’s not being cancelled. People are accepting their right to protest by not standing during the anthem. Now you have states trying to oppress protests, which is not American.