A Question About the Koepka Butterfly Birdie?

[Hardluckster]

If the butterfly touches the golf ball while it's rolling toward the hole, does he have to replace it and putt again?

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

If the butterfly touches the golf ball while it's rolling toward the hole, does he have to replace it and putt again?

I know where you’re going with this, so cite the Rule. Quote it.

[Hardluckster]

I'm not going anywhere. I simply asked the question. I could have looked it up, I suppose, but I thought I'd just ask here. 

[iacas]

Then check out 11.1. Was the butterfly “hit” by the ball?

Is a butterfly an “outside influence”?

[Hardluckster]

I did look it up after not getting a reply, but still have questions. Exception 2 is applicable. 

The butterfly is an animal so it is an outside influence. The exception uses the phrase on the putting green. The butterfly wasnt on the green. Does this nullify the exception?

I don't know if the butterfly in Koepka's situation and the ball ever made contact, but if they had it could have been (1) the butterfly hit the ball, (2) the ball hit the butterfly, or (3) they hit each other. Maybe I'm just being too technical there. I don't know. 

I asked because the question came up in my golf group this weekend. 

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Hardluckster said:

I did look it up after not getting a reply, but still have questions. Exception 2 is applicable. 

The butterfly is an animal so it is an outside influence. The exception uses the phrase on the putting green. The butterfly wasnt on the green. Does this nullify the exception?

I don't know if the butterfly in Koepka's situation and the ball ever made contact, but if they had it could have been (1) the butterfly hit the ball, (2) the ball hit the butterfly, or (3) they hit each other. Maybe I'm just being too technical there. I don't know. 

I asked because the question came up in my golf group this weekend. 

This is because the butterfly was not actually on the green and the PGA Tour have adopted Local Rule D-7, where the animal in this instance is defined as a loose impediment and the player's ball has accidentally hit it.

The ball is played from where it lies and so the shot does not need to be taken again. Koepka was spared of any rules infringement and instead could enjoy the butterfly fluttering along with his ball as it went in the hole.

 

[sjduffers]

Meanwhile, another ball somewhere else on the planet didn't go in, because you know, the butterfly effect...

[imsys0042]

2 hours ago, sjduffers said:

Meanwhile, another ball somewhere else on the planet didn't go in, because you know, the butterfly effect...

Yeah, that explains a lot about my putting this weekend. 

[boogielicious]

5 hours ago, sjduffers said:

Meanwhile, another ball somewhere else on the planet didn't go in, because you know, the butterfly effect...

Yeah, but this was the butterfly!

[Ruler]

On 9/6/2021 at 5:01 AM, Vinsk said:

This is because the butterfly was not actually on the green

That gives us something to ponder.

Say a player's ball putted from the putting green rolls towards the hole and on its path there is an insect of considerable size. Just before the ball hits the insect it spreads its wings and lifts itself up from the surface of the PG and at that point the ball hits the insect and is deflected. Would that be a case where 11.1b Exc2 would not be applied but the ball would be played as it lies?

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, Ruler said:

That gives us something to ponder.

Say a player's ball putted from the putting green rolls towards the hole and on its path there is an insect of considerable size. Just before the ball hits the insect it spreads its wings and lifts itself up from the surface of the PG and at that point the ball hits the insect and is deflected. Would that be a case where 11.1b Exc2 would not be applied but the ball would be played as it lies?

Well I think there’s a stipulation regarding deliberately hitting an insect. If the insect was of considerable size and in the line of the putt I’m sure the player would’ve tended to it before putting? 🥴

[Ruler]

5 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Well I think there’s a stipulation regarding deliberately hitting an insect. If the insect was of considerable size and in the line of the putt I’m sure the player would’ve tended to it before putting? 🥴

You are missing the core of this issue.

So, let us change the situation: the insect lands AFTER the player has struck his ball. The rest stays the same.

Happy now?

P.S: I cannot find anything in the Rules about deliberately hitting an insect on the putting green. Can you?

Edited September 13, 2021 by Ruler

[Vinsk]

2 minutes ago, Ruler said:

You are missing the core of this issue.

So, let us change the situation: the insect lands AFTER the player has struck his ball. The rest stays the same.

Happy now?

He would play the ball from where it stops after the deflection.

[Ruler]

I wonder if the Rule is actually saying that. It just sounds strange to me if the whereabouts of the insect would be the determining factor and not the deflection. After all, the Rule seems to be  there to protect the player from any outside influence when playing a ball from the putting green, not just the ones laying on the PG (eg. a ball falling on the moving ball).

[Vinsk]

4 minutes ago, Ruler said:

I wonder if the Rule is actually saying that. It just sounds strange to me if the whereabouts of the insect would be the determining factor and not the deflection. After all, the Rule seems to be  there to protect the player from any outside influence when playing a ball from the putting green, not just the ones laying on the PG (eg. a ball falling on the moving ball).

Yeah. It’s bad luck for this to happen for sure. But getting to re-hit the putt seems a bit much. It’s giving you a practice run….

[Ruler]

4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Yeah. It’s bad luck for this to happen for sure. But getting to re-hit the putt seems a bit much. It’s giving you a practice run….

That re-hit is compulsory equally to a putt holed and missed.

[Ruler]

I asked the opinion of two experienced referees and both said that in their opinion it is the ball that counts, not the insect. Meaning, whether the insect is on the putting green or airborne makes no difference as long as the ball has been hit from the putting green.

Any comments?

[Rulesman]

Rule 11.1b Exception 2
If your ball in motion accidentally hits any person or outside influence, your ball must be played as it lies, except in two situations:
Exception 2 – When Your Ball Played from Putting Green Accidentally Hits Any Person, Animal ...

Animal
Any living member of the animal kingdom (other than humans), including ... insects,).

On 9/6/2021 at 3:01 AM, Vinsk said:

Local Rule D-7,

 

Where is that ?