USGA/R&A Changes to the Equipment Standards?

[saevel25]

8 hours ago, Aguirre said:

Why would I possibly care about what a bunch of out-of-touch white guys in suits have to say about how I consume the game on a participation level?

1. They created the rules that gave you a game to play.
2. They continually have tried to support and grow golf, which allows golf to be a game you want to play.

You clearly are willing to take all they have done over the past nearly 130 years for granted. 

[ChetlovesMer]

7 hours ago, pganapathy said:

Because they already are doing it.  If you could use a longer driver shaft of 50+ inches, you could hit the ball further.  A COR of 0.83 limits the distance you can hit a golf ball and if that was higher you could get more distance.  The driver head is limited to 460cc and supposedly a bigger head will give you more distance and accuracy.  There is illegal equipment out there that supposedly performs better and is longer.  The question is why aren't you using that already if you can be more accurate, hit longer shots and score better. 🤷‍♀️

This reminds me of the "Camel Toe Wedge". 

Why use "legal" clubs when you can use this? 

[boogielicious]

8 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

This reminds me of the "Camel Toe Wedge". 

Why use "legal" clubs when you can use this? 

That and The HAMMER would take my game to new heights!

At least the USGA is asking for comment. Other sports sometimes just randomly change the rules without comment from participants.

[ChetlovesMer]

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I’m totally against a roll back. But if what ball I use becomes non-conforming, then I won’t use it...

You and I agree again. 

If I were you, I'd be nervous about how often I agree with you. 👍🤪👍

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Other sports sometimes just randomly change the rules without comment from participants.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

While for me as a mere mortal I'm not keen on an equipment rollback. But I do understand the reasoning especially at elite levels.  If distances were dialed back on the PGAT by 5%-10% would it somehow make watching the Pro game less interesting to me? Absolutely not. It might even make it more interesting by requiring greater shot and club creativity rather than so much bomb and gouge. 

A while back I put together this chart showing how PGAT driving average distances have increased year over year. Something really happened between the late 90's and early 2000's.  I'm guessing it's mostly driven by the ball and metal drivers?

 

  

Edited March 30, 2023 by BlackDiamondPar5

[billchao]

37 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

A while back I put together this chart showing how PGAT driving average distances have increased year over year. Something really happened between the late 90's and early 2000's.  I'm guessing it's mostly driven by the ball and metal drivers?

 

  

It’s equipment, yea. The original Big Bertha came out in 1991. Have to remember also that steel shafts on woods were common back in the early nineties. Tiger played with one.

It’s not the Tiger fitness effect as he was 17 and an amateur in 1992. 

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

You know, like wall ball in middle school. Using the outside gym wall….😃

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

While for me as a mere mortal I'm not keen on an equipment rollback. But I do understand the reasoning especially at elite levels.  If distances were dialed back on the PGAT by 5%-10% would it somehow make watching the Pro game less interesting to me? Absolutely not. It might even make it more interesting by requiring greater shot and club creativity rather than so much bomb and gouge. 

A while back I put together this chart showing how PGAT driving average distances have increased year over year. Something really happened between the late 90's and early 2000's.  I'm guessing it's mostly driven by the ball and metal drivers?

 

  

I'm going to suggest that the big jump of the blue line (not the trend line) from 2000ish to 2002, taking average from 272 to 280 I'm going to guess that is directly related to the release of the PROV1. 

The rest of it I'm going to say is an aggregate of a bunch of factors. 

What I find really interesting is that the trend line obviously is generally upward, but driving distance actually looks to have generally decreased from 1988 to 1994 and again from 2006 to 2013 at least slightly. 

[Vinsk]

10 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

While for me as a mere mortal I'm not keen on an equipment rollback. But I do understand the reasoning especially at elite levels.  If distances were dialed back on the PGAT by 5%-10% would it somehow make watching the Pro game less interesting to me? Absolutely not. It might even make it more interesting by requiring greater shot and club creativity rather than so much bomb and gouge. 

A while back I put together this chart showing how PGAT driving average distances have increased year over year. Something really happened between the late 90's and early 2000's.  I'm guessing it's mostly driven by the ball and metal drivers?

 

  

What happened? Jack Hamm began teaching pros and celebrities…the power of THE HAMMER X in 1998!

[boogielicious]

20 hours ago, iacas said:

Example: Lots of changes were made in basketball over the years without getting comment from all who played the game at other levels. Those changes affected every level. At least the USGA asks for comment from all. 
 

5 Biggest NBA Rule Changes in History (Why & Their Impacts)

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Basketball, like any sport, is not perfect. In fact, the NBA is constantly going through small changes to make it a better game overall. While many current

 

[iacas]

5 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Example:

That isn’t an example of a “random“ rules change. No sport changes rules “randomly.“

They have reasons. And competition committees.

[saevel25]

I think most rules changes always come from some reason. Moving 3-point line back because players got too good. Football changing rules to define what is a catch or eliminate overly dangerous plays. 

[dennyjones]

4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Football changing rules to define what is a catch

The Detroit Lion's Calvin Johnson would think this was random!

 

[mdl]

On 3/16/2023 at 4:41 PM, iacas said:

Isn't a short par five converted to a long par four a great risk-reward opportunity that a lot of players feel they must take the risk since it's a par four?

Do you honestly think that 15 yards of reduced ball flight with a driver will do this?

1) Yeah. But people are irrational and egotistical and no pro with a 5W into a really tough green complex on a par 4 is willing to think to themselves they'll average 4.8 with a 5W and 4.65 with a layup to a 70 yard wedge. So we don't get to see guys thinking strategically and making interesting decisions.

2) Of course not! I very unclearly meant this is a general potential support of limited flight balls, not a specific potential support of 15 yard reduction. For the examples I gave of course we'd need way more reduction than that.

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, mdl said:

1) Yeah. But people are irrational and egotistical and no pro with a 5W into a really tough green complex on a par 4 is willing to think to themselves they'll average 4.8 with a 5W and 4.65 with a layup to a 70 yard wedge. So we don't get to see guys thinking strategically and making interesting decisions.

It’s more likely those numbers are backward.

[mdl]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

It’s more likely those numbers are backward.

Erik can't resist being a bit pedantic Yes I understand that in the large majority of cases getting closer is the winner in terms of expected shots. Let's say this hole has a rock hard peninsula green where you have a 3 yard window to land a 5W or else you're dropping in the water short or bouncing through into the water long...

[iacas]

54 minutes ago, mdl said:

Erik can't resist being a bit pedantic Yes I understand that in the large majority of cases getting closer is the winner in terms of expected shots. Let's say this hole has a rock hard peninsula green where you have a 3 yard window to land a 5W or else you're dropping in the water short or bouncing through into the water long...

The point is that I don't agree that having to hit long clubs into par fours isn't "more exciting" to me. Or making them par fives.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:28 AM, chspeed said:

We don't use MLB-regulation bats and balls,

That's not the point you think it is.

Golf has basically always been a sport where you can (try to) reproduce the shots the game's best have pulled off. If you make an ace on the 17th at TPC Sawgrass, you did it with equipment following the same rules to a hole that's the same size, etc.

That's not remotely true in baseball, and never really has been… particularly since an MLB pitcher isn't throwing to you.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:28 AM, chspeed said:

yet still love to play softball.

Softball is a completely different sport.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:28 AM, chspeed said:

We don't play soccer on a standard pitch, but still play pick-up soccer.

Sure you can. What's stopping you?

Also, soccer isn't the same, because you play against other people. In golf, it's basically you against the course.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:28 AM, chspeed said:

Doesn't stop us from fantasizing about hitting a 400 ft. home run or bending it like Beckham.

Thing is, that's all it is in other sports: fantasy. In golf, you can actually do it!

On 3/23/2023 at 8:28 AM, chspeed said:

IMO, the game pros play is SO different than the game average amateurs play; custom fitted clubs, private courses, incredible course conditions, supersonic swing speeds, etc. that the equipment specs are somewhat besides the point.

• Custom fit clubs - you can do this too. They follow the same equipment rules.
• Private courses - I played one today, while wearing a shirt from another private course and the host of a KFT event.
• Course conditions - Not necessarily, but also… plenty of courses have great conditions.
• Supersonic swing speeds - That's not really the same. It's not regulated, and it has nothing to do with whether you can relate to a 167-yard carry over water on a par three.

On 3/23/2023 at 8:28 AM, chspeed said:

The issue of the tiny fraction of golfers that play high-level or competitive golf is easily resolved with an MLR ball, custom-fitted clubs, and playing from the tips.

What about everyone just below the line?

On 3/23/2023 at 8:28 AM, chspeed said:

That said, I doubt bifurcation will happen because of inertia, golf politics, and fear of losing money.

They're not scrapping this.