Greenskeeper Changed Pin Location Mid Hole

[Friz]

This isn't so much a breach of rules (at least by me i dont think) as a question of how I play and score this situation....which I would think should never happen but it did.  Actually got a chance to play 9 holes this morning, and apparently the grounds crew started late.  When I got to the second hole, group in front of me walked off the green, greenskeeper walks on, picks up the flag, and starts cutting a new hole.  Odd, but I let him finish and play to the new pin.

But then I get to the 4th hole, another par 3, he waits for me to take my tee shot, then as I'm walking toward the green he hops out and starts cutting a new hole again.  My ball was very much in play, not on the green but I was in the rough about 8 inches off the back right fringe.  He probably turned what wouldve been a 40 foot chip into 20.  I got up and down to the new location, felt a little dirty about an easier par,  then wondered what it should mean. 

I dont keep an official handicap, just my own unofficial tracker, but would this round even be considered official?  Would there be a different way to attempt to play it out if I found the old hole cutout and played to there anyway?

Course was just a small local 9 hole I'd never been on before.  Kept in real good shape, but just very surprised by the greenskeeper

[Big C]

It could probably be argued that hole was not played by the rules of golf - obviously through no fault of yours. I believe the handicapping manual dictates that you post net par for that hole.

56 minutes ago, Friz said:

Would there be a different way to attempt to play it out if I found the old hole cutout and played to there anyway?

You could do that, but would post net par in that scenario as well. 

[Shindig]

Hopefully the difference in pin (especially on a par 3) didn't affect your tee shot too much -- would you have played it differently if the pin were in the other location?

@Big C's answer seems right to me for handicap purposes.  Note that you don't need to play nine holes to post a nine hole round -- five according to the rules of golf (or close enough to know what your "strictly by the rules" score is likely to be -- you can pick up 2" tap-ins and declare them made, at least for handicap purposes.  Don't do it in a tournament, of course).  Similar with 18 hole rounds (13 is the count, I believe).

Didn't this happen at a British Open qualifier a few years ago?  Some par-3's pin was declared to be in the wrong place (on a terrible slope or something) and they moved it and had players come back to replay it?

[Friz]

21 minutes ago, Shindig said:

Hopefully the difference in pin (especially on a par 3) didn't affect your tee shot too much -- would you have played it differently if the pin were in the other location?

It's hard to say...the original pin location was behind a bunker so I didn't aim directly at it, and the new location I may have aimed slightly differently since it was no longer tucked...but odds are the result wouldn't have changed drastically.  The main difference was the greenskeeper changing my chip.  Can't imagine what he would've done if I'd actually held the green near the original pin.

33 minutes ago, Big C said:

It could probably be argued that hole was not played by the rules of golf - obviously through no fault of yours. I believe the handicapping manual dictates that you post net par for that hole.

This makes sense...unfortunately adds a stroke to my round when my short game had been pretty solid...but fair

[boogielicious]

This has happened to me before, where I hit on the green with a back pin position, and I was on the back edge, then the greens keeper moved the hole to the front. My playing partner then chipped on to the front. They should have let us finish the hole.

[Typhoon92]

I’ve always seen signs at courses that the “grounds crew has the right of way”.

[WilliamB]

Not a very tactful thing to do after someone it's their tee shot on the par-3. It would irk me a little bit, but I would just deal with it and move on. I might kindly ask the pro shop if this is standard procedure, putting the responsibility on them.

[imsys0042]

That's pretty funny.   I remember years ago there were a couple of times at the same course where you could catch the grounds crew if you played quick and they would sometimes make us wait a couple of minutes while they changed the pin before we hit our approach shots.   Never changed it up after shots though.

Can you imagine having a short putt to break 80 and they move it 50 feet away....?

[Friz]

44 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

This has happened to me before, where I hit on the green with a back pin position, and I was on the back edge, then the greens keeper moved the hole to the front. My playing partner then chipped on to the front. They should have let us finish the hole.

Seems like the common sense thing to do, but i guess there was no time to wait?

 

33 minutes ago, Typhoon92 said:

I’ve always seen signs at courses that the “grounds crew has the right of way”.

I've seen these before too, but I've always had the assumption that was for mowing or landscaping....apparently it can mean anything.

28 minutes ago, WilliamB said:

Not a very tactful thing to do after someone it's their tee shot on the par-3. It would irk me a little bit, but I would just deal with it and move on. I might kindly ask the pro shop if this is standard procedure, putting the responsibility on them.

Yeah, irked is about the most it was to me....I played out and carried on.  Didn't even feel like it was worth bringing up to the pro shop...it was just so bizarre seeing it happen.  My shot has come to rest and he's changing the outcome of it.  It felt almost as though he had picked my ball up and carried it 20 feet closer to the hole....obviously in that case I could put it back, but can't do much about the hole changing.

19 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

That's pretty funny.   I remember years ago there were a couple of times at the same course where you could catch the grounds crew if you played quick and they would sometimes make us wait a couple of minutes while they changed the pin before we hit our approach shots.   Never changed it up after shots though.

Can you imagine having a short putt to break 80 and they move it 50 feet away....?

When I saw it happen on the second hole, its the first time I'd seen them changing pin locations so late in the day, but they did it between groups so it didn't really impact anything.  But doing so after I hit my shot felt like it changed so much more.  If I'd had the short putt and he'd moved it though I may have had a different reaction though!

Edited June 27, 2022 by Friz

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Typhoon92 said:

I’ve always seen signs at courses that the “grounds crew has the right of way”.

That doesn't answer his question.

Also, the dude could have waited. Even if he took the cup out, he could have left the old hole there until you played out, then just replaced the plug and moved on. Or asked you.

I would say that you could just play out the hole to the new location. Odds are pretty equal that they could move it farther from or nearer to you.

Or, if you want, just pick up and skip the hole. Treat it as a hole not played.

[reidsou]

14 hours ago, Friz said:

But then I get to the 4th hole, another par 3, he waits for me to take my tee shot, then as I'm walking toward the green he hops out and starts cutting a new hole again.   

Have him cut the new hole under your ball - hole-in-one! 

[WilliamB]

On 6/27/2022 at 11:10 AM, Friz said:

My ball was very much in play, not on the green but I was in the rough about 8 inches off the back right fringe.

 

14 hours ago, reidsou said:

Have him cut the new hole under your ball - hole-in-one! 

Now that would be interesting in this case, cutting the hole in the rough? 😁

Edited June 28, 2022 by WilliamB

[reidsou]

45 minutes ago, WilliamB said:

 

Now that would be interesting in this case, cutting the hole in the rough? 😁

C'mon man! 

[Typhoon92]

On 6/27/2022 at 4:17 PM, iacas said:

That doesn't answer his question.

Also, the dude could have waited. Even if he took the cup out, he could have left the old hole there until you played out, then just replaced the plug and moved on. Or asked you.

I would say that you could just play out the hole to the new location. Odds are pretty equal that they could move it farther from or nearer to you.

Or, if you want, just pick up and skip the hole. Treat it as a hole not played.

Alot of the replies don’t directly answer his question with “Rule # blah blah states…”.  You sort of read between the lines, grounds crew is king, you play it where it lies is what I would do.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Typhoon92

[bkuehn1952]

I ill end this discussion with a somewhat humorous true story.  We were playing the difficult 4th hole at Pierce Lake early one morning.  We hit our approach shots and as we moved to the green, the greenkeeper walked on to the green and began cutting a new hole.  The current hole had my buddy putting down a slope from 30 feet.  The new hole would be 5 feet away and uphill.

We walked on to the green and the greenkeeper stepped aside.  My buddy said, "That's okay, I'll wait."