Right Handed Golf = Lefty Disc Golf - A Completely Unsubstantiated "Theory"

[DiscBallRightyLefty]

Lifetime righty ball golfer here, still learning at 64, about a 6-8 handicap nowadays, -mainly a range rat.   Been disc golfing 3 years, studying form.  The Swing and Throw are highly related, I've been experiencing epiphany for my ball golf swing by studying disc  golf form on YouTube (following slingshotdiscgolf and jifs like below.)   Check out the speed of Will's rotation, watch his left foot.  Amazing.  Tons of YouTube content from the top 5 disc golf form analysts who seem to love Shawn Clemens, the ball golf pro.   The same lag/whip/snap concepts.  

 

[iacas]

Please don't call it "ball golf." I play disc golf too (not as much as I'd like), and that term is abhorrent. It's golf, and disc golf. @cipher will back me up here. 😉

13 minutes ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

The Swing and Throw are highly related

You're going to have to explain that one a little bit, as I don't know that I agree.

[DiscBallRightyLefty]

Pro, I will challenge you (or ANYONE on T.S.T.) to an epic match, 18 holes "GOLF", (9 right handed, 9 left handed) followed by 18 holes disc golf (9 lefty, 9 righty).   Stroke play, 14 clubs, winner gets a chicken dinner (or steak).   I'll travel to you, or if you're in Columbus.  Pro, you should be a good disc lefty, cause its a righty golf swing. 

Don't take my word for it, review the many hours of disc golf instruction on Disc 
Golf Course Review or on YT (seabass, heavydisc) who use the golf swing to instruct.  I'll  download some relevant examples in the future and my right and left golf swing on post swing forum when I get a chance.  I'm probably a 20 handicap lefty, don't know cause I'm a certified range rat, but I'm getting better lefty quick.  

[iacas]

1 hour ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

Pro, I will challenge you (or ANYONE on T.S.T.) to an epic match, 18 holes "GOLF", (9 right handed, 9 left handed) followed by 18 holes disc golf (9 lefty, 9 righty).   Stroke play, 14 clubs, winner gets a chicken dinner (or steak).   I'll travel to you, or if you're in Columbus.  Pro, you should be a good disc lefty, cause its a righty golf swing.

Welcome to the site. I don't think anything like what you've suggested will do one thing to settle the discussion/debate we could have about this.

Also… my lefty swing is pretty good:

But again… it wouldn't do anything to settle the debate.

1 hour ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

Don't take my word for it, review the many hours of disc golf instruction on Disc Golf Course Review or on YT (seabass, heavydisc) who use the golf swing to instruct.

Some of those many hours you've spent reading some of the instructional content on DGCR… was written by me! For example:

Quick Thoughts on Basic Throwing Geometry (BH) - Disc Golf Course Review

---

Quick Thoughts on Basic Throwing Geometry (BH) Technique & Strategy

That's a topic (from over ten years ago) where I was applying the endless belt concept from The Golfing Machine to explain the "hit" or "rip" in a disc golf backhand throwing motion. And from another DG site:

Quote

I would like to thank iacas for the endless belt diagram. It made me realize I was letting my hand swing in at the end of the hammer pound rather than holding it out there at the pound.

I've known and talked to seabas22 (you've probably seen images he created using my software, Analyzr.

1 hour ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

I'll  download some relevant examples in the future and my right and left golf swing on post swing forum when I get a chance.  I'm probably a 20 handicap lefty, don't know cause I'm a certified range rat, but I'm getting better lefty quick.  

I'm still going to ask you to show how you feel the disc golf throwing motion is "the same" as the golf swing. Here are some easy (big) differences:

• We create a lot of forward motion with the body (run-up) in DG. Not so in golf.
• Our pelvis stays back in disc golf and we finish in forward flexion. Drastically different in golf.
• Golf is a two-armed/two-handed motion. DG is one.
• The kinematic sequence is drastically different. Our hands, in large part because they're so close to the disc, reach peak speed significantly later than in the golf swing.
• Never mind the planes on which our bodies are moving: in DG the arms go around us and horizontally through their own motions, in golf they primarily move up and down from their own motions.

That's enough to chew on.

Welcome to the site. If you're really into this stuff, you'll find an endless amount of debate and discussion here. Just take it the way it's intended, and remember… it's just golf. Or disc golf. It doesn't really matter much at the end of the day, even though it's my job and what I spend 80+ hours a week thinking about. 😄

P.S. Here is seabas22 using Analyzr:

P.P.S. It's cool that you play both directions. I have a lefty set of irons, and a wedge or two. Still looking for a driver, hybrid… putter maybe. But, OT for here.

[klineka]

2 hours ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

Pro, I will challenge you (or ANYONE on T.S.T.) to an epic match, 18 holes "GOLF", (9 right handed, 9 left handed) followed by 18 holes disc golf (9 lefty, 9 righty).   Stroke play, 14 clubs, winner gets a chicken dinner (or steak).   I'll travel to you, or if you're in Columbus.  Pro, you should be a good disc lefty, cause its a righty golf swing. 

Don't take my word for it, review the many hours of disc golf instruction on Disc 
Golf Course Review or on YT (seabass, heavydisc) who use the golf swing to instruct.  I'll  download some relevant examples in the future and my right and left golf swing on post swing forum when I get a chance.  I'm probably a 20 handicap lefty, don't know cause I'm a certified range rat, but I'm getting better lefty quick.  

Why does your challenge consist of hitting a golf ball and disc golfing both ways for each? Why not 18 holes right handed golf followed by 18 holes disc golf left handed? Wouldn't that be a better comparison of what you are claiming?

What does hitting a golf ball opposite handed and disc golfing opposite handed have anything to do with the topic of this post? (Which is you claiming that golfing one way and disc golfing the opposite way are highly related)

FWIW (and no I don't have any real interest in proving this in person), I'm confident I could quite easily hold my own against you in 18 holes right handed golfing and 18 holes disc golfing left handed as I happen to be left handed in everything except golf and have been playing disc golf left handed for a few years and have multiple hole in ones disc golfing and regularly shoot under par in disc golfing. Still don't really see what point that would prove though.

The onus is now on you to address Erik's points and explain further (using facts and physics) how they're highly related.

[DiscBallRightyLefty]

My interest in swinging lefty is just the shear  joyous learning curve for me.  I've been beating balls at the range and playing many tournaments a year righty for 50 years.  I can't get any better at it, I  gave max effort while still working 40hrs, and now all I'm getting is smoked by younger dudes and my joints are aching.  Then a friend introduced me to disc.  I almost immediately found my limitation BHRH of the same old 300 feet that everybody hits, cause I only can throw with my arm.  It may be I'm not capable of the athleticism to get my core into the throw, or more probably my form is wrong.  Its frustrating, cause I can still crush golf balls with good power and speed with no effort.   It took me 3 years, but it dawned on me that a righty golf swing is similar to lefty disc throw, and for me it sure is.  I can throw almost as far lefty, right off the bat, and with the same accuracy,  it wasn't a prob cause of my familiarity to the golf swing left hand.   I use that throw every time I play now when I need a right curving disc.  (I don't have a forearm throw because of injury).   Forward another year, I'm wondering if a lefty golf swing is similar to a righty disc throw.  It is, no question.

Pro, thanks for directing me to the post a opposite swing page.   I love people not afraid to dive into something and  look silly.  But I think people need to commit to buying some L clubs.  Come on.  

I love me a learning curve.   Swing lefty at the range has opened the game up to me again, I had  given up in trying to find joy in the game.  I have stopped playing.    Now, I have a mixed set of L and R in the bag, and I'm heading out to Scioto West (Raymond).   I completely suck lefty, so I'll fit right in out there.   I'm looking forward to playing in my work golf league lefty, and I won't be the worst there, fit right in there too.   Perhaps I'll pad my handicap to about 20 lefty and then turn around in the finals.   Last time I played out there I was 4 under after 8 holes. (9 hole league) ....and lost.   Bunch of crusty old baggers.  

To be honest, my goals are twofold: To crack the 300 foot backhand disc throw same as everybody wants, and to get good enough B golf lefty to not completely hack it.  

In the mean time, I've found in my disc form search on YT a fellow slingshotdiscgolf, a back foot idea of engaging the core I hadn't thought of, and immediately applied that to by golf swings both L and R.  Immediately got good results.    More solid contact more often.   Went out yesterday on lunch break and threw some Mambas as hard as I could on the lawn at work.  All I got was sore.  Driving me crazy, I just know its something I'm doing wrong in my form.   

 

 

[klineka]

You typed all that and didn't address a single thing @iacas stated nor did you answer any of my questions.

Making claims but not backing them up and completely ignoring people's very specific replies to you isn't going to get you very far on here.

People want to engage in debate and conversation but when you ignore people's responses and then just go on a different random rant that makes it difficult to keep the conversation going. 

[Elmer]

I read that title way too quickly and thought to myself "maybe that's what I have been doing wrong all these year. I have been using a left handed ball to play golf and I am a rightly"

Took 1/2 a cup of coffee to read correctly!

[iacas]

56 minutes ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

My interest in swinging lefty is just the shear  joyous learning curve for me.

Cool. You'll find a lot of discussion about "swing theory" and stuff here.

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/14-swing-thoughts/

56 minutes ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

It took me 3 years, but it dawned on me that a righty golf swing is similar to lefty disc throw, and for me it sure is. … Forward another year, I'm wondering if a lefty golf swing is similar to a righty disc throw.  It is, no question.

How?

I question it.

56 minutes ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

I love me a learning curve.

There's a lot to be learned from discussing things rather than just making definitive statements. How does anything you've done here demonstrate that you "love [a] learning [curve]"?

44 minutes ago, klineka said:

You typed all that and didn't address a single thing @iacas stated nor did you answer any of my questions.

Seriously.

On 2/7/2023 at 5:52 PM, iacas said:

I'm still going to ask you to show how you feel the disc golf throwing motion is "the same" as the golf swing. Here are some easy (big) differences:

• We create a lot of forward motion with the body (run-up) in DG. Not so in golf.
• Our pelvis stays back in disc golf and we finish in forward flexion. Drastically different in golf.
• Golf is a two-armed/two-handed motion. DG is one.
• The kinematic sequence is drastically different. Our hands, in large part because they're so close to the disc, reach peak speed significantly later than in the golf swing.
• Never mind the planes on which our bodies are moving: in DG the arms go around us and horizontally through their own motions, in golf they primarily move up and down from their own motions.

That's enough to chew on.

Welcome to the site. If you're really into this stuff, you'll find an endless amount of debate and discussion here. Just take it the way it's intended, and remember… it's just golf. Or disc golf. It doesn't really matter much at the end of the day, even though it's my job and what I spend 80+ hours a week thinking about. 😄

That's enough to get you started.

[Vinsk]

I play golf left handed. I play disc golf right handed. I throw a frisbee right handed. What does this mean? No idea. I’m equally awful at both.

[DiscBallRightyLefty]

Vinsk, Amazing, which hand do you throw a ball?   Just got back from the range, hit mostly lefty, had a guy film me on my phone.  Video doesn't lie.  I've got fundamental stuff to work on.  Gives me a real appreciation/inspiration for O'Grady and S. Clemons.  The video of seabass with his pool cue is helpful I was working on that move today, both throwing disc into net and on the range.   Heres the YT that I applied to golf with good results.  

 

[phan52]

28 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I play golf left handed. I play disc golf right handed. I throw a frisbee right handed. What does this mean? No idea. I’m equally awful at both.

I am the opposite. I do everything lefthanded except golf, swing a baseball bat and play hockey. Because, when i was very young, before I ever had a baseball bat in my hand, my Dad cut down a few of his clubs for us to hit in the back yard and he was righthanded. It just became normal. But I can't throw a baseball 50 feet righthanded. 

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

Vinsk, Amazing, which hand do you throw a ball?

Left. But honestly I was hoping you’d respond to @iacas post. It’s a lot more interesting than my silly stuff. I’d like to hear your thoughts to what Erik posted….

[iacas]

3 hours ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

The stuff at about 1:40… is not at all like what we do in golf.

Sorry, @DiscBallRightyLefty, I don't see it. At all. The onus is on you to actually discuss here instead of just repeatedly saying things like "It is, no question".

[DiscBallRightyLefty]

Vinsk, I'm on a quest to break 300 ft throwing disc and to swing lefty, swing lefty golf because I was struck by the similarity to disc golf BHRH.  Whether run up with an x step or stand still its shouldn't have to be argued, they are very similar.   Its cool that Eric here has had so much contact with seabass, SB is an elite level analyst in DG, and I've watched most of his stuff.  seabass respects S. Clements and refers to him in his teaching.    The main similarity to me is the lag created by hip and trunk rotation, which I'm good at right hand golf but suck at with a disc BHRH.  I have better form lefty disc cause I've practiced R golfswing so much,  I can move much better lefty disc, but I lack the power lefty disc, which is also a mystery to me.   I think its mainly a weak hand issue.    Eagle McMahon is throwing BHLH after his forearm injury, and easily getting 350-400 power won in Europe last year, beat McBeth in a showdown, incredible.  

This is getting me fired  up man, I'm videoing my self again, I've got some fresh inspiration to get from the bottom of the learning curve to push it as far as it can go, given my age and broken knees.  But right hand golf, kinda lost any reason to keep trying/competing, I peaked long ago.   

[iacas]

41 minutes ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

Whether run up with an x step or stand still its shouldn't have to be argued, they are very similar.

Let me revise my earlier statement:

49 minutes ago, iacas said:

Sorry, @DiscBallRightyLefty, I don't see it. At all. The onus is on you to actually discuss here instead of just repeatedly saying things like "It is, no question" or "its [sic] shouldn't have to be argued."

Dude.

41 minutes ago, DiscBallRightyLefty said:

The main similarity to me is the lag created by hip and trunk rotation

What does that even mean?

I'm out until you demonstrate that this is not entirely a waste of time.

[DiscBallRightyLefty]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Sorry, @DiscBallRightyLefty, I don't see it. At all. The onus is on you to actually discuss here instead of just repeatedly saying things like "It is, no question".

 ----   onus, that's funny.   Wow, I've got an onus, and here's what's coming out of my onus.  

That video you "can't see" was epiphany to me, cause I've had a problem many decades long not understanding how to properly get my hips to fire creating lag.  I watch my posted Will S video in awe, the fastest hips I've ever seen.   How does that guy create such speed?   The torsion slingshotdg is describing is across the belly and lower back, and it works.  I tightened up my butt/belly/back muscles while relaxing arms and shoulders, (which helped with posture-bonus) and  for the first time felt some torsion which created some proper hip firing.   I started crushing and getting a more consistent solid contact with the ball and started feeling my hips fire, because of this video.  I would recommend that video and others by slingshot to anyone trying to understand leg hip torso motion in disc golf and golf.  I'd also recommend loopghost  forward to 4:45 in the video.  I've realized my problem is I was waiting till weight was transferred to my left foot too much before I started my rotation.   The tightening of belly and back while keeping the arms lose also creates resistance in back swing which I can fire against in transition.   In the slingshot vid the idea is to start the rotation with the weight still on the back foot, as he describes.   The problem with the pool cue seabass vid is it transfers weight to left before the rotation, which is the problem I started with, I've tried that concept before, but I just stand up and block it to get back to the ball.  That's a better DG vid than for G.  

 

[iacas]

52 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm out until you demonstrate that this is not entirely a waste of time.

Threshold still not met.

The part at 4:45 is fine. He's not correct in that the hip goes backward (away from the target) as that's only really seen in long drivers, but that's literally just the "load and explode" part of a topic I just wrote about. That has parallels to tons of things, like jumping… so trying to tie it to just golf is kinda silly.

Feel ain't real.

Start a Member Swing topic or something.

Or, you know, actually discuss specific things here. If you want to discuss similarities, find one specific thing and talk about it. But be specific. And come with something better than some guy's theory.

P.S. These are not golf-like.