Jumping All Over or How to Be More Consistent

[Themightyoz]

Like most of us I have learned a lot about golf swings through the internet.  I've taken plenty of lessons and done lots of different drills.  I have even tried almost all aspects of the golf industry (rules official, course staff, tournament organizer) so I've loved it no doubt.  My scores have come down slow and steady year after year but I feel that I could be so much better.  What is the best strategy.  I have tried Graves Golf (no thanks, too much strain on shoulder), Paul Wilson golf, Kirk Junge and Malaska.  It gets kinda muddy and again I'm ok that I have had to spend some time finding the answer, but I am getting to the point now where I feel a bit overloaded and falling into the sunk cost trap a bit of oh lets try a bit from this one and a bit from that one.  Should I just pick one and work my butt off to get better at that?  Or is it like Adam Young says more about skills than technique,.  For folks who have gotten down to lower scores as adults what was your strategy did you just stick to one thing or did you have to jump around until you found what worked?  

The best thing I did this year was get properly fit.  I feel with that variable gone it takes care of a lot of my flaws and a long now is just getting the right distances.

Average scores since I took up this game

 

yr 1126.0

yr 2 115.9

yr 3 112.3

yr 4 105.8

yr 5 101.6

yr 6102.6

yr 7 99.8

[DaveP043]

11 hours ago, Themightyoz said:

For folks who have gotten down to lower scores as adults what was your strategy did you just stick to one thing or did you have to jump around until you found what worked?

I suggest finding one instructor who will tailor his instruction to YOU, do NOT try to learn from random internet instructors generic advice to the masses.  One place to start is by posting video of your swing to the My Swing section

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/

 

[TourSpoon]

11 hours ago, Themightyoz said:

Like most of us I have learned a lot about golf swings through the internet.

We do learn a lot about golf swings through the internet, too bad self diagnosing can be dangerous on a variety of fronts. I get too distracted by the internet. 

11 hours ago, Themightyoz said:

For folks who have gotten down to lower scores as adults what was your strategy did you just stick to one thing or did you have to jump around until you found what worked?  

I found a qualified person to help me (PGA Pro, trusted coach, etc) and then stuck to the lesson at hand. Again, when I self diagnose I am usually wrong. 

1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

I suggest finding one instructor who will tailor his instruction to YOU

Absolutely! 

11 hours ago, Themightyoz said:

The best thing I did this year was get properly fit.

Ok, you sought help. Now go see someone so  you can get a reliable tee shot, hit a reasonable approach, chip on in one stroke, and two putt.  You master these basics and you will be taking 10 shots off a round in less than a month. 

Best of luck! 

[klineka]

You're already more consistent than you realize.

 

Do you track your stats other than your average score? If not, you should be. At the bare minimum GIR%, penalty strokes per round, and putts per round. 

There are two main ways in which you can get better at golf and they are related. You can improve your swing so that your dispersion zones shrink and you hit the ball further. You can also get better at golf by making better strategy and course management decisions. Taking enough club, avoiding penalty strokes, avoiding doubles, etc.

Based on the fact that you are shooting around 100 and have been for a few years, it sounds like there's opportunity for improvement in both the technical side of golf swing and in the playing side of the game too. 

[saevel25]

12 hours ago, Themightyoz said:

For folks who have gotten down to lower scores as adults what was your strategy did you just stick to one thing or did you have to jump around until you found what worked?  

Stick to one thing. The #1 way to improve is repetition. You need to do one thing over and over again. You need to find what priority piece works for you. Which means going to a golf instructor that knows what path to set you on. Not a golf instructor that just spouts about 20 different things during a golf lesson. 

Bouncing around is just a way continually fail. 

[iacas]

Find a good instructor. Do what they say, and really, only what they say.

I happen to think I'm one, so if you want to try online lessons, evolvr.com is available. Online is not the best for everyone, but it may be worth a shot given the low cost.

[SEMI_Duffer]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:37 PM, Themightyoz said:

... but I am getting to the point now where I feel a bit overloaded and falling into the sunk cost trap a bit of oh lets try a bit from this one and a bit from that one.

The problems with that are two-fold: Firstly: The bits from here and there have to be complementary to one another.  Not all swing "solutions" and drills are compatible with all swings.

E.g.: I posted a video on another forum where this Aussie pro was demonstrating a drill for getting the club handle down, not out and around, during the down-swing.  Somebody replied "I"m gonna try that."  "Won't work if you're not where you need to be up to that point," I replied.

The other problem is doing these bits without some kind of feedback to know you're doing what you're supposed to be doing in the correct form.  Even mirrors and videoing yourself aren't necessarily dependable, because your eye might miss something a qualified instructor's or coach's will not.

I'm a case in point.  Before I began swing training most every swing looked pretty much the same to me.  Now, after doing swing training for so long, I can pick up things in the mirrors or in videos I never would have seen before.  More often than not I don't even have to send my coaches a swing video.  I can see for myself when it ain't right.

On 7/30/2023 at 10:37 PM, Themightyoz said:

  Should I just pick one and work my butt off to get better at that?

Yes.

On 7/30/2023 at 10:37 PM, Themightyoz said:

I've taken plenty of lessons and done lots of different drills.

I moved this to last because it's such a big point.

I've already addressed the "lessons" thing, above.  This is about drills.  Drills must be done with conscious intent.  Not just going through the motions.  This means you have to ensure you're doing them correctly, with correct form, and that you're feeling what you're doing.  (You won't have mirrors, video recording, or a coach while you're out on the course.)

The other thing is for motions to become truly ingrained you may have to do more of them, over a greater length of time, than you might imagine. The science of biomechanics says it takes, on-average, 3500 repetitions of a motion for it to become ingrained.  Some people need less, some people more.  Nearly always more if you're replacing an old motion with a new one.

And you can't just knock-out rep after rep after rep after rep in as short a time as possible in order to hit whatever number you need.  It turns out what creates an ingrained motion (erroneously called "muscle memory") is repetition followed by time for your brain to digest it and form or reinforce the neural pathways that result in an ingrained motion.

Much of that happens while you sleep.

This means, for example, it's more effective to do two sets of twenty-five reps, each set separated by some amount of time, then repeat the next day, than it is to knock out a hundred reps all in one go.

Few amateur golfers are interested in grinding it out like that, which is why so many try, and fail, to improve.

It takes grit.  It takes learning to enjoy the process.  And it takes learning to deal with the fact that sometimes you may get it wrong and find out you have to start something all over again, put the time in all over again, to correct it.

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by SEMI_Duffer

[Themightyoz]

Thanks all.  I went to my swing coach who I have worked with the most.  Great instructor and coach who isn't married to method and like me is a student of the swing.  Loves learning other swings to get more insights for better or for worse.  My goal our last lesson was a review because I wanted to be peaceful on the course not jumping around.

 

We went over everything from set-up to follow through to create something of a game plan.  The biggest thing is slowing down my backswing a la Sunjae Im.  Set up/ grip was good.  Need early wrist set, good pressure shift back and then down.  Let the momentum direct how long the follow through is.  IT's great to work with somebody who can tell me where I've had the most success.

[StuM]

20 hours ago, SEMI_Duffer said:

I've already addressed the "lessons" thing, above.  This is about drills.  Drills must be done with conscious intent.  Not just going through the motions.  This means you have to ensure you're doing them correctly, with correct form, and that you're feeling what you're doing.  (You won't have mirrors, video recording, or a coach while you're out on the course.)

The other thing is for motions to become truly ingrained you may have to do more of them, over a greater length of time, than you might imagine. The science of biomechanics says it takes, on-average, 3500 repetitions of a motion for it to become ingrained.  Some people need less, some people more.  Nearly always more if you're replacing an old motion with a new one.

And you can't just knock-out rep after rep after rep after rep in as short a time as possible in order to hit whatever number you need.  It turns out what creates an ingrained motion (erroneously called "muscle memory") is repetition followed by time for your brain to digest it and form or reinforce the neural pathways that result in an ingrained motion.

Much of that happens while you sleep.

This means, for example, it's more effective to do two sets of twenty-five reps, each set separated by some amount of time, then repeat the next day, than it is to knock out a hundred reps all in one go.

Few amateur golfers are interested in grinding it out like that, which is why so many try, and fail, to improve.

It takes grit.  It takes learning to enjoy the process.  And it takes learning to deal with the fact that sometimes you may get it wrong and find out you have to start something all over again, put the time in all over again, to correct it.

This made me think of the "Stupid Monkey" thread.  ("Stupid Monkey" is NOT an insult, it would be a compliment.).

 

 

[saevel25]

20 hours ago, SEMI_Duffer said:

It turns out what creates an ingrained motion (erroneously called "muscle memory") is repetition followed by time for your brain to digest it and form or reinforce the neural pathways that result in an ingrained motion.

Here is a great podcast on learning skills faster. 

How to Learn Skills Faster - Huberman Lab

---

Dr. Huberman discusses the science and practice of learning physical skills at a biological level and what to focus on during each stage.

The primary thing you need is the conflict between the state you were in versus the state you want to get to. Through high repetition reinforcing the new state you want to be in over your existing state. You need to fail to learn. Overtime you just fail less. You need to see some success to for the contrast. 

[TourSpoon]

6 hours ago, Themightyoz said:

IT's great to work with somebody who can tell me where I've had the most success.

Sometimes you just need to be reminded of what works for you and to refocus on the lessons of the past. Come to think of it, most of my lessons are just that. My faults creep in when set-up gets sloppy which leads to an inside move and across the line. Funny how a set-up check fixes all that other stuff. 

[3jacker]

Pick a reputable teacher and stick with him/her.

When you start to have doubts, dismiss them immediately because if you knew anything you wouldn't need them to begin with.

[SEMI_Duffer]

6 hours ago, StuM said:

This made me think of the "Stupid Monkey" thread.  ("Stupid Monkey" is NOT an insult, it would be a compliment.).

That actually makes a lot of sense.  Sadly, for me, though, it tends not to be terribly effective for me--at least not all the time.  The way I'm wired I need to know the "why" as well as the "what" and "how."  It works out for me anyway, because, once I understand the "why" I can just go ahead and get to it, not thinking about the "why" anymore, but, just making it happen.

6 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Here is a great podcast on learning skills faster. 

Thanks!  I'll give that a look/listen.

6 hours ago, saevel25 said:

You need to fail to learn. Overtime you just fail less. You need to see some success to for the contrast. 

Do I ever know that song 

There've been motions I've trained that took me forever-in-a-day to get right.  Then I'd sometimes lose them again and have to figure it out all over.  (This is why it's so absolutely necessary to use mirrors and videoing--and get input from coaches/instructors.)

I'm going through that right now.  I've been working since late last year learning how to turn/pivot down to the ball.  I was kind of there.  Was almost resigned to that being as good as I was going to get.  My coaches proclaimed it acceptable.  (Whether because it was or because they, too, had resigned themselves to that's the best I'd ever do I do not know.)

Then I ran across a drill from one of the golf instructors I follow on Twitter.  "Hmmm...."  Tried it.  It seemed legit.  Passed it by my instructors.  They loved the position I was getting to and how I was getting there with that drill.  So now I'm doing countless reps of that drill--and that's all I'm doing right now.

 

[SEMI_Duffer]

On 8/2/2023 at 10:25 AM, saevel25 said:

Here is a great podcast on learning skills faster. 

Wow!  You weren't kidding, @saevel25.  I'm generally disinclined to sit through podcasts, much less two-hour podcasts, but, I sat through that one.

A lot of very useful takeaways in that I will put to immediate use.

Thanks for posting it.