Reverse Gross Match Played as Net?

[reidsou]

Two players played a match in a gross match play tournament. Before the round, not understanding the meaning of "gross", they compared handicaps and agreed player A should get 2 strokes. Afterwards, player A and B agreed that player A won the match on the second extra hole. They reported the result to the Committee, including that strokes were given and hole scores. Without the strokes, player B would have won the match 1 up. 

Should the Committee reverse the result and award the match to player B? If so, under what rule? 

I reviewed the rules and formed a tentative opinion. Rules that seem applicable are 1.3c, 3.1c, 20.1b, and 20.2d. 

But none of these rules is a good fit. Would like to see what others think. 

[DaveP043]

Thr player is responsible for knowing the terms of the match.  I don't see a justification to reverse the reported results.   

[klineka]

13 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I don't see a justification to reverse the reported results.   

Wouldn't the justification to reverse the reported results be that the match wasn't played in the method that the tournament (and all the other players) should have been played?

Doesn't really seem fair to the rest of the tournament field that player A won their match only because of handicap strokes when ever other match (presumably) was played gross with no strokes.

IMO, (just my gut feel not supported by any review of rulings or anything) is that Player B should be the winner since they would have won 1up on gross scores.

[DaveP043]

23 minutes ago, klineka said:

Wouldn't the justification to reverse the reported results be that the match wasn't played in the method that the tournament (and all the other players) should have been played?

Doesn't really seem fair to the rest of the tournament field that player A won their match only because of handicap strokes when ever other match (presumably) was played gross with no strokes.

IMO, (just my gut feel not supported by any review of rulings or anything) is that Player B should be the winner since they would have won 1up on gross scores.

This is where I'd refer to 20.1b(3), for instances where a match can be reversed after the results are finalized.  There are two conditions that must be met, and neither one is.

edit to add, this might depend on whether he match has been finalized, based on the terms of he competition.  B doesn't have much rounds to request a ruling,  is really his own fault for not understanding the meaning of  "gross".

[TourSpoon]

I am not a rules expert by any means, but it was match play and if after each hole and finally the match, they mutually agreed upon the results its a done deal.  

[klineka]

29 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

This is where I'd refer to 20.1b(3), for instances where a match can be reversed after the results are finalized.  There are two conditions that must be met, and neither one is.

edit to add, this might depend on whether he match has been finalized, based on the terms of he competition.  B doesn't have much rounds to request a ruling,  is really his own fault for not understanding the meaning of  "gross".

That makes sense.

I guess the part I still struggle with is the fact that the match wasn't played/scored by the same set of rules that every other match in the same tournament was.

What's stopping two players in a different match from agreeing "we don't want to count penalty strokes in our match so we wont" or "we each get 1 mulligan to use at any point during the round". Then once that match is finalized too that result would stick too, right?

Edited August 7, 2023 by klineka

[TourSpoon]

5 minutes ago, klineka said:

What's stopping two players in a different match from agreeing "we don't want to count penalty strokes in our match so we wont" or "we each get 1 mulligan to use at any point during the round". Then once that match is finalized too that result would stick too, right?

You aren't allowed to knowingly break the rules. 

[reidsou]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Thr player is responsible for knowing the terms of the match.  I don't see a justification to reverse the reported results.   

That is compelling. And your reference to rule 20.1b(3).

FYI, I know it doesn't matter, but the player who gave strokes is new to our tournaments. 

My initial thought was the player who received strokes broke rule 3.1c. And the penalty for breach of a rule that gave a significant advantage is DQ - rule 1.3c. However, both players were unaware. And, as you stated, the criteria for reversing the match are not met. 

4 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

You aren't allowed to knowingly break the rules. 

If two players knowingly ignore the rules in a match (rule 1.3b) are they both disqualified from the competition? Giving a forfeit to the next round opponent? 

[Rulesman]

1.3b  If two or more players agree to ignore any Rule or penalty they know applies

20.1b If two or more players agree to ignore any Rule or penalty they know applies

 

It would seem they didn't.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Rulesman

[iacas]

3 hours ago, klineka said:

I guess the part I still struggle with is the fact that the match wasn't played/scored by the same set of rules that every other match in the same tournament was.

So? The match only affected them. This isn't stroke play: you can ignore a breach of the rules by your competitor in match play. So, theoretically, every match could be played under a shifting, vague set of enforcement (or not).

Players can't knowingly agree to breach the rules, but they can overlook breaches by the opponent, and if they come to a decision on a ruling, it will stand as it only affects their match.