Almost Always/Never

[DaveP043]

One thing I'm cautious about is saying "always" or "never" in connection with the Rules of Golf.  However, there are some things that are pretty dang consistent from one rule to the next.  I'll post two that come to mind, with the caveat that there are some very limited exceptions to each of these.

Marking the ball.  As a pretty consistent rule, you are ALWAYS required to mark your ball before lifting it when the Rule you're working under requires you to replace the ball in its original location  Examples include Rule 7.3 for identifying a ball, 4.2c(1) for lifting to see if its cracked, 13.1b for a ball on the green, 16.4 to see if your ball deserves free relief.  You're (almost) NEVER required to mark the ball if you're going to place or drop it someplace else, under Rules 16, 17, 18, and 19, and MLR E-3.  

Substituting a different ball.  With very few exceptions, you're ALWAYS required to use the Original Ball when you're required to replace a ball on its original location.  If you're dropping or placing the ball at a different spot, you're NEVER required to use the Original Ball, you may use "the original ball or another ball", meaning you may substitute a different ball.  This includes MLR E-3.

Yes, there are exceptions to these, but they're pretty rare.  Finding consistencies among different rules has helped me to understand and remember them better.  I'm interested to read of any other "(almost) always/never" situations within the rules.

[iacas]

Good topic. I can think of several, but many are dumb like "you can't ever push, scrape, or spoon the ball." 😄 Here is one, I think:

You are always required to advance the ball with a stroke. There's never a situation in golf where you can advance the ball closer to the hole without making a stroke at it, even via penalty.

(If your ball hits something inside a penalty area and bounces way back into the penalty area, you can "advance" the ball to the margin of the PA which may be ahead of where the ball currently sits, but that's still not advancing the ball other than via a stroke in my book.) And in match play, an opponent can overlook a breach of this type, but a lot of things go out the window in match play if the opponent chooses to overlook it.

[DaveP043]

42 minutes ago, iacas said:

You are always required to advance the ball with a stroke. There's never a situation in golf where you can advance the ball closer to the hole without making a stroke at it, even via penalty.

I'm sure at some point we'll get into the exceptions to each of these, I can think of only two to this general rule, but I'll sit on them for a bit.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I'm sure at some point we'll get into the exceptions to each of these, I can think of only two to this general rule, but I'll sit on them for a bit.

Sure, just as with your "(almost) never" and "with very few exceptions" from the first post.

[ChetlovesMer]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Good topic. I can think of several, but many are dumb like "you can't ever push, scrape, or spoon the ball." 😄 

 

I think this applies:

You may always take stroke plus distance relief by adding one penalty stroke and playing the original ball or a substitute ball from where the previous stroke was made. 

[Ty_Webb]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

You are always required to advance the ball with a stroke. There's never a situation in golf where you can advance the ball closer to the hole without making a stroke at it, even via penalty.

Drop zone? 

I guess also in theory, if you are ten yards away from the hole and attempt to hit a flop shot, knife it 70 yards into the woods behind the green, you can advance that ball to where you played your previous shot under stroke and distance.

How about you can always rely on information provided to you by your opponent about their score.

You can never agree to waive a rule of golf with your opponent

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

Drop zone? 

Yeah, that's one. I hate drop zones where you can drop closer to the hole, though.

2 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

I guess also in theory, if you are ten yards away from the hole and attempt to hit a flop shot, knife it 70 yards into the woods behind the green, you can advance that ball to where you played your previous shot under stroke and distance.

I don't count that as advancing your ball just like I don't count advancing your ball by dropping beside a penalty area when your ball kicks backward. Your ball still got to that point via a stroke.

[Rulesman]

17 hours ago, iacas said:

Yeah, that's one. I hate drop zones where you can drop closer to the hole, though.

Isn't the 17th at Sawgrass one such?

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, Rulesman said:

Isn't the 17th at Sawgrass one such?

I believe you're right, but it does preserve the requirement to carry the water.  And while its closer to the hole than the original Teeing Area, its further than the location of almost every ball that ends up in the water.

[Ty_Webb]

I wouldn't think of the Sawgrass one. On the PGA Tour they frequently have drop zones for balls that wind up in grandstands and they will often be closer to the hole than the grandstand. I've occasionally seen them on the hole side of a penalty area too - the analogy to 17 at Sawgrass would be if there was a drop zone on the island.

[Rulesman]

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I believe you're right, but it does preserve the requirement to carry the water.  And while its closer to the hole than the original Teeing Area, its further than the location of almost every ball that ends up in the water.

True

[sjduffers]

An exception to the always advance the ball with a stroke "rule" that I can think of is the practice that some courses have to create a drop zone on the other side of a hazard or penalty area or forced carries, which otherwise could really slow down play, if people are unable to get to the other side safely. I have used them, sometimes with appreciation for the "shortcut". 🙂

As far as always/never I can think of "if you pay with a.penalty stroke for a relief. you always get two clubs, and if you get free relief, you always get one club". Any exception to that one, notwithstanding combining multiple reliefs adding to more than one club?

[DaveP043]

22 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

An exception to the always advance the ball with a stroke "rule" that I can think of is the practice that some courses have to create a drop zone on the other side of a hazard or penalty area or forced carries, which otherwise could really slow down play, if people are unable to get to the other side safely. I have used them, sometimes with appreciation for the "shortcut". 🙂

As far as always/never I can think of "if you pay with a.penalty stroke for a relief. you always get two clubs, and if you get free relief, you always get one club". Any exception to that one, notwithstanding combining multiple reliefs adding to more than one club?

Yeah, those types of Dropping Zones are not recommended, but they ARE used.

The one exception I thought of to the "advance the ball only with a stroke" generality is for a ball in play in the Teeing Area.  Perhaps the ball bounced off a tree, and ended up back in the teeing area.  You are allowed to lift it and play from anywhere within the Teeing Area, even put it on a tee, so you CAN move it nearer the hole without a stroke or a penalty.  That may only be by a few inches, and no more than 2 clublengths, but its nearer the hole.

For the clublengths and penalty v/ free relief, its fair to say that 2 CL relief is ONLY used for Penalty Relief, but not all Penalty Relief results in 2 CL.  Back on the Line requires you to drop on the line, and the ball can roll one clublength.  Stroke and Distance uses a Relief Area with a size of just one clublength.  Only Lateral Relief allows 2 clublengths.

[iacas]

52 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

An exception to the always advance the ball with a stroke "rule" that I can think of is the practice that some courses have to create a drop zone on the other side of a hazard or penalty area or forced carries,

Yeah, covered earlier.

21 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The one exception I thought of to the "advance the ball only with a stroke" generality is for a ball in play in the Teeing Area.

I wondered what you meant when you said two. I don’t count that one because you’re entitled to tee off from the very front.

[Dick Kusleika]

When taking a lateral relief option, the relief area is always one club length for free relief and always two club lengths for relief with a penalty. I've always heard that, but I'm not sure how to determine if it's true.

[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, Dick Kusleika said:

When taking a lateral relief option, the relief area is always one club length for free relief and always two club lengths for relief with a penalty. I've always heard that, but I'm not sure how to determine if it's true.

Generally speaking, this is correct.  Free relief is available for Abnormal Course Conditions (Rule 16.1), Dangerous Animals (16.2), Embedded Balls (16.3), and even for a ball coming to rest on or in a Moveable Obstruction, and it's one clublength, while Lateral Relief from a Red Penalty Area (Rule 17) or Unplayable Ball (19) is two clublengths.  An important detail for each of these is the Reference Point from which that extends, whether its the location of the ball, the Nearest Point of Complete Relief, or the spot where the ball crossed the Penalty Area limit.

To determineif its true, you do have to look at each rule individually.  I did a quick search in the USGA Rules app for "lateral" and got pointed at Rules 17 and 19, where Lateral Relief is distinguished from the other options, Back on the Line and Stroke and Distance.  "Lateral" doesn't appear in the free relief rules, as there's only one relief option.  

Going back to the "always/never" idea, you can say that your relief area is NEVER two clublengths radius when taking free relief.

[mdl]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Generally speaking, this is correct.  Free relief is available for Abnormal Course Conditions (Rule 16.1), Dangerous Animals (16.2), Embedded Balls (16.3), and even for a ball coming to rest on or in a Moveable Obstruction, and it's one clublength, while Lateral Relief from a Red Penalty Area (Rule 17) or Unplayable Ball (19) is two clublengths.  An important detail for each of these is the Reference Point from which that extends, whether its the location of the ball, the Nearest Point of Complete Relief, or the spot where the ball crossed the Penalty Area limit.

To determineif its true, you do have to look at each rule individually.  I did a quick search in the USGA Rules app for "lateral" and got pointed at Rules 17 and 19, where Lateral Relief is distinguished from the other options, Back on the Line and Stroke and Distance.  "Lateral" doesn't appear in the free relief rules, as there's only one relief option.  

Going back to the "always/never" idea, you can say that your relief area is NEVER two clublengths radius when taking free relief.

I've heard this for years and have even advocated it to folks as an easy way to remember the rules better. But I've never been positive it's actually true! Thanks for looking into it!

[DaveP043]

15 hours ago, mdl said:

I've heard this for years and have even advocated it to folks as an easy way to remember the rules better. But I've never been positive it's actually true! Thanks for looking into it!

Thnk @Dick Kusleika for bringing it up.  I thought of another way to search the rules for this, I entered "two clublengths" in the search bar in the USGA Rules app.  It gave me 3 rules, 17 for Penalty Areas, 19 for Unplayable, and 6 for the limits of the Teeing Area.  I recommend that eveyy single golfer install the Rules app on your phone, and learn just a little bit about how to navigate it.