Which Aim Point Is Correct for One Cup Outside?

[saevel25]

I saw this on twitter, and then saw this article. 

Why this green-reading lingo has ignited debate, confusion among golfers

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An illustration posted to Reddit has sparked a lively debate about green-reading terminology. We asked experts to weigh in.

So, I wanted to throw this poll up here. 

Is it aim point 1, 2, of 3? 

[iacas]

Yeah, that's an easy one, and anyone who says the wrong answer is dumb. 😄 

If you say "a ball out" then that's a tougher question.

[Ty_Webb]

If I say a cup out, I mean no. 2. A ball out would be close to 3 in this example, just a little inside (since a ball is less than half a cup). That's what I mean when I say those things. Do others think differently?

[klineka]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

If you say "a ball out" then that's a tougher question.

Why? The size of the ball is constant just like the size of the hole is constant. People might be better at gauging the size of the hole better than the size of the ball but the exact same logic should apply, right?

[DaveP043]

For me, "a cup out" means I am aiming at a spot just over 4 inches outside the edge of the actual hole, #2.  For "a ball out" I'm doing the same thing, aiming at a spot about 1.7 inches outside the hole.  Its a lot more crucial for "cup" measurements, the difference between #1 and #3 is over 4 inches, enough that a misunderstanding could result in a complete miss.  When the difference is 1.7 inches, a misunderstanding might mean the difference between left-center and right-center.

[iacas]

55 minutes ago, klineka said:

Why? The size of the ball is constant just like the size of the hole is constant. People might be better at gauging the size of the hole better than the size of the ball but the exact same logic should apply, right?

Because there's a difference between a ball and a hole. A ball is easy to imagine "replace this ball with the one you're hitting," while a hole provides an "edge" and isn't really something you'd "replace" with the ball you're putting.

I'm fully on board with "B" being the choice above, but I also think that many would choose "Z" if you say "a ball out." I get their logic: the entire ball is "out" of the hole, and people can picture aiming their ball at that ghost ball.

But, yes, it differs from the way we talk about a hole, and that would make "left lip" and "half a ball out" the same.

Yes, it feels inconsistent, but a cup and a ball are not consistent either, and I just know I've seen some contentious polls on "a ball out" more than I've seen them get contentious over "a cup out."

FWIW I rarely use balls as the aiming point because of this. I feel pretty comfortable that most people will say B, but I've seen enough "ball out" polls to see that a lot of people pick Z.

41 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

For me, "a cup out" means I am aiming at a spot just over 4 inches outside the edge of the actual hole, #2.  For "a ball out" I'm doing the same thing, aiming at a spot about 1.7 inches outside the hole.  Its a lot more crucial for "cup" measurements, the difference between #1 and #3 is over 4 inches, enough that a misunderstanding could result in a complete miss.  When the difference is 1.7 inches, a misunderstanding might mean the difference between left-center and right-center.

Yeah, I was bugged by you saying something that was almost a half inch difference at Sand Valley. 🙂 I forget the details but I think I asked if you played it a ball out (1.68") and you said something like "yeah, half a cup (2.125")." Then I said "which is it?" and you said "they're the same thing" as if the half inch didn't matter… 😄 Heh.

[GolfLug]

A cup out is B and a ball out is Z. A cup is a unit of measurement like an inch and a ball out means edge of the ball to edge of hole, as in entire ball out of the cup. Not sure how and when I arrived at that, but that's where I'm firmly at.

[klineka]

59 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

A cup out is B and a ball out is Z. A cup is a unit of measurement like an inch and a ball out means edge of the ball to edge of hole, as in entire ball out of the cup. Not sure how and when I arrived at that, but that's where I'm firmly at.

Interesting. 

To me "a cup" is a unit of measurement just like "a ball" is in this scenario. To me a ball out means "the aiming spot is the width of one ball from the edge of the hole", so Y, and half a ball out would be Z. Just like half a cup is C and a cup is B

[DaveP043]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

as if the half inch didn't matter

Yeah, everything matters, but a half-inch is less likely to matter than 2 or 3 inches.  As the length of the putt increases, the ability to aim precisely diminishes.

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

Interesting. 

To me "a cup" is a unit of measurement just like "a ball" is in this scenario. To me a ball out means "the aiming spot is the width of one ball from the edge of the hole", so Y, and half a ball out would be Z. Just like half a cup is C and a cup is B

I admit to the inconsistency. Also, dead center, inside right/left, left/right edge are all aiming points as I would think follows proper logic. It's just that this a 'ball out' seems to have it's own defn at odds with the others in my head. 

FWIW, I rarely think/visualize my aiming point in terms of a ball as a unit of measure. It's usually the actual spot on the green. 

47 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Yeah, everything matters, but a half-inch is less likely to matter than 2 or 3 inches.  As the length of the putt increases, the ability to aim precisely diminishes.

Yes, considering granularity down to half an inch would be no more 3-ish feet for me. Beyond that things get a bit too blurry.   

Edited Thursday at 07:14 PM by GolfLug

[DaveP043]

4 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Yes, considering granularity down to half an inch would be no more 3-ish feet for me. Beyond that things get a bit too blurry. 

Maybe you need glasses??  

[iacas]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Yeah, everything matters, but a half-inch is less likely to matter than 2 or 3 inches.  As the length of the putt increases, the ability to aim precisely diminishes.

I’m a great putter. It mattered. 🤣

[ChetlovesMer]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

Because there's a difference between a ball and a hole. A ball is easy to imagine "replace this ball with the one you're hitting," while a hole provides an "edge" and isn't really something you'd "replace" with the ball you're putting.

I'm fully on board with "B" being the choice above, but I also think that many would choose "Z" if you say "a ball out." I get their logic: the entire ball is "out" of the hole, and people can picture aiming their ball at that ghost ball.

But, yes, it differs from the way we talk about a hole, and that would make "left lip" and "half a ball out" the same.

Yes, it feels inconsistent, but a cup and a ball are not consistent either, and I just know I've seen some contentious polls on "a ball out" more than I've seen them get contentious over "a cup out."

FWIW I rarely use balls as the aiming point because of this. I feel pretty comfortable that most people will say B, but I've seen enough "ball out" polls to see that a lot of people pick Z.

Yeah, I was bugged by you saying something that was almost a half inch difference at Sand Valley. 🙂 I forget the details but I think I asked if you played it a ball out (1.68") and you said something like "yeah, half a cup (2.125")." Then I said "which is it?" and you said "they're the same thing" as if the half inch didn't matter… 😄 Heh.

Hmm... This is pretty interesting. 

I immediately said B (or 2 in the OP's question) to the question of the "cup" out. But I would have said Z to the question of a "ball" out. 

I'll admit that's probably inconsistent, but being as I never thought of it before that's what I would have said. 

[GolfLug]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Maybe you need glasses??  

Yes, infact my prescription just got updated. I must be in the minority whose near sight, far sight and astigmatism have all simultaneously deteriorated in the last year..🤓

[Ty_Webb]

4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Yeah, everything matters, but a half-inch is less likely to matter than 2 or 3 inches.  As the length of the putt increases, the ability to aim precisely diminishes.

This reminds me of when Bernhard Langer back in the 90s asked his caddy for a yardage. Caddy said something like "it's 171 from that sprinkler head" and Langer asked the caddy if that was the front or back of the sprinkler head. Half an inch is inside the margin for error on the read I would think.

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Half an inch is inside the margin for error on the read I would think.

Not when someone just went before you and you’re me. 😜

[Ty_Webb]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

Not when someone just went before you and you’re me. 😜

I have a perfect putter that I have set up before and watched it miss both sides of the hole with the exact same roll. If the greens are absolutely perfect and you're that good, then missing by half an inch one side or the other is still going to go in 🙂

That said - love the self confidence. I need me some of that.

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

I have a perfect putter that I have set up before and watched it miss both sides of the hole with the exact same roll. If the greens are absolutely perfect and you're that good, then missing by half an inch one side or the other is still going to go in 🙂

I've done the same, but I'm good enough to hit it within a half an inch from that distance, so it still maximizes my chances. I'm not aiming at a spot ± half an inch. I'm aiming at a spot.