Model Local Rule E-5 in Comps - Thoughts?

[Stryper]

Hi all. 

We've been having an inordinate amount of rain here on the Sunshine Coast (irony noted). I (and many others) have had several instances of where we've hit cracking tee shots, only to not be able to find the ball just off the fairway due to casual water or deep rough or plugging. We were having a discussion and one guy mentioned this rule.

Model Local Rules

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The R&A seeks to engage in and support activities for the benefit of the sport of golf from The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews.

I was wondering what people's thoughts are on it and whether any of your clubs use it during comps? You go 250m down the fairway thinking you are all good but cannot find a ball that even your playing partners say "was just off the fairway". It was nowhere near trees no OOB nor penalty area - it simply cannot be found.

With courses so busy these days, the delays it causes is compounded on days when there are no carts, because you have to walk all the way back to the tee and then back again.

Do you start hitting provisional balls every time the ball goes slightly off the fairway?

I am thinking of seeing if the Club may put this in place (perhaps under certain conditions?). What are the pros and cons? I understand a Local Rule can be put in place on certain days, so they could do it during times of extreme weather/lack of mowing? Is this true?  

I can see one main problem arising: 
1. This rule can be used for OOB shots too (where they thought the ball would be safe but it wasn't). You could argue that making someone tee off again puts pressure on them to not put it back in the same area again, so they get some "mental relief" that they can essentially be back where they would for Shot 4 without that extra pressure.

[iacas]

Lots of clubs institute this MLR. Even when conditions don't lead to a lot of lost balls.

I see no problem with it. It does mean you're hitting your fourth (if your tee shot is missing), of course.

[Stryper]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

Lots of clubs institute this MLR. Even when conditions don't lead to a lot of lost balls.

I see no problem with it. It does mean you're hitting your fourth (if your tee shot is missing), of course.

So even if a ball is obviously OOB? What constitutes "obviously". Let's say the person hitting says "I think that stayed in". The other three disagree and say it was obvious it did not. He cannot be forced to take a provisional can he? So this rule essentially offers the person hitting the ability to not have to risk going OOB again and hitting 4 from the middle of the fairway where the ball went OOB. Or am I reading the rules incorrectly?

 

Edited April 28 by Stryper

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Stryper said:

So even if a ball is obviously OOB? What constitutes "obviously". Let's say the person hitting says "I think that stayed in". The other three disagree and say it was obvious it did not. He cannot be forced to take a provisional can he? So this rule essentially offers the person hitting the ability to not have to risk going OOB again and hitting 4 from the middle of the fairway where the ball went OOB. Or am I reading the rules incorrectly?

I don't know what you mean by "middle of the fairway." No, the relief area goes 2 club lengths into the fairway (and extends away from there).

Also, I don't know why "obviously" is in quotes. I didn't use that word, nor is it relevant here. If your ball is lost or known to be OB, you can use the MLR if it's in place.

[Rulesman]

6 hours ago, Stryper said:

So even if a ball is obviously OOB? What constitutes "obviously". Let's say the person hitting says "I think that stayed in". The other three disagree and say it was obvious it did not. He cannot be forced to take a provisional can he? So this rule essentially offers the person hitting the ability to not have to risk going OOB again and hitting 4 from the middle of the fairway where the ball went OOB. Or am I reading the rules incorrectly?

 

The decision to use the MLR is the player's alone. He has the choice regardless of what others may think. 

If he finds the original - all ok. If he doesn't, he follows the procedure with a 2 stroke penalty. But he doesn't "play from the middle of the fairway".

Edited April 28 by Rulesman

[Stryper]

Obviously everyone takes things very literally here  my apologies. Two club lengths and back on the angle perpendicular to the green and where the ball was assumed to have crossed when it went OOB or was lost. 

To a hacker like me anything on the short stuff is “middle of the fairway”.  
 

It also seemed that it would favour a big hitter who has gone OOB as they don’t have the risk of hitting a drive into OOB twice in a row if they are allowed to take that rule. But the rule is the rule.

I’ll approach the club and see what their take on it is. Strange that when this guy brought this rule up the others had not heard of it. It makes a lot of sense to me. 

Edited April 28 by Stryper

[ChetlovesMer]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

Lots of clubs institute this MLR. Even when conditions don't lead to a lot of lost balls.

I see no problem with it. It does mean you're hitting your fourth (if your tee shot is missing), of course.

This.

12 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't know what you mean by "middle of the fairway." No, the relief area goes 2 club lengths into the fairway (and extends away from there).

Also, I don't know why "obviously" is in quotes. I didn't use that word, nor is it relevant here. If your ball is lost or known to be OB, you can use the MLR if it's in place.

Aaaannnnd.... this. 

Our Wednesday Night league uses that MLR and it definitely helps pace of play. 
The ONLY issue that we've ever had has now kind of gone away. A few years back they started using the rule and there were a number of arguments about if the person was hitting 4 or hitting 3. Some players were pretty adamant that they were now hitting 3. The folks who actually knew the rule of course knew that they should be hitting 4. I say that and also let you know that there were actually golfers who thought going OB means you drop near OB and are now hitting 3.

 

Edited April 28 by ChetlovesMer
type o

[DaveP043]

8 hours ago, Stryper said:

It also seemed that it would favour a big hitter who has gone OOB as they don’t have the risk of hitting a drive into OOB twice in a row if they are allowed to take that rule. But the rule is the rule.

I agree that in a pure stroke-play situation the use of E-5 limits the possible scores by limiting the potential to hit multiple shots OB.  But in a Stableford or "quota" game, a player is likely to be in "blob" territory anyway, so its a minimal difference.  

I understand that E-5 is viewed differently in different parts of the world, I don't know what the Australian attitude would be, but I don't see a problem with using it.  

[ChetlovesMer]

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I agree that in a pure stroke-play situation the use of E-5 limits the possible scores by limiting the potential to hit multiple shots OB.  But in a Stableford or "quota" game, a player is likely to be in "blob" territory anyway, so its a minimal difference.  

I understand that E-5 is viewed differently in different parts of the world, I don't know what the Australian attitude would be, but I don't see a problem with using it.  

I think you are spot on. 
Seems like every survey I read about playing golf in the US says that the biggest issue here is pace of play. Anything that can help pace of play feels like a good idea. 

[Rulesman]

CONGU – who control handicapping in Great Britain and Ireland – affirmed the Local Rule could not be used in any qualifying competitions or general play scores. That’s any event where handicap marks could be affected.

Edited April 28 by Rulesman

[Rulesman]

20 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

CONGU – who control handicapping in Great Britain and Ireland – affirmed the Local Rule could not be used in any qualifying competitions or general play scores. That’s any event where handicap marks could be affected.

However 2.1b says re GP scores

2.1b

ii) General Play. When an organized competition is not being contested, a
score is not generally acceptable for handicap purposes if the player:
* Breaches the Rules of Golf, and the correct penalty is not applied under
the Rules of Golf, or
* Deliberately ignores a Rule of Golf.
Where a player follows the provisions set down in a Model Local Rule, even
when the Committee in charge of the course has not adopted that Model
Local Rule, the score may still be acceptable for handicap purposes.