Physics

[GreenhornGolfer]

Im wondering who here has backgrounds in physics. As for me, I've got a small background in physics. I took physics in high school and college but I never got into the more advanced physics that uses calculus and so forth. I do know physics does play a big role in golf, so if anybody wants to talk about how physics applies to golf, or just physics in general, Im all for it. 

[iacas]

🙋🏼‍♂️

[Carl3]

I enrolled at Ohio State University in physics, but switched to mechanical engineering after the first year. Dynamics and kinematics engineering courses apply to golf, but were not my favorite. I am more of a thermal/fluids guy, but enjoy discussing physics.

[Ty_Webb]

Golf is absolutely loaded with physics stuff, from fairly elementary stuff like Newtonian laws of motion to a little more complicated like conservation of momentum and conservation of energy, all the way up to PhD stuff like biomechanics (movements of the body during the swing) and fluid dynamics (clubheads and balls moving through the air - and the impact of spin, dimples etc.).

I love talking about physics. A lot of what matters in golf is a little beyond where I ever got to with it. I studied it through my first year at university. I specialized in mathematics and there was a little bit of fluid dynamics I did in my last year. That was fascinating, but I struggled with it. Learned how to answer the questions, but never really got to grips with why or how it worked. 

[boogielicious]

Masters in Chemical Engineering here and as we all know chemistry and engineering are really just physics. I’m nerdy too and do like discussing this stuff.

[ChetlovesMer]

I graduated with a degree in Electrical Engineering way back in 1993.

As we all know "You can't spell geek without a double E."

                          .......................   Can't spell beer either............👍😁👍

[dennyjones]

@GreenhornGolfer, You've piqued some interest with your question.   

 

A physicist, an engineer, and a golfer walk into the clubhouse bar.
Bartender says, “Who won?”
Physicist: “I calculated the perfect swing using projectile motion equations.”
Engineer: “I built a custom club with optimized moment of inertia.”
Golfer: sips beer “I just hit the damn ball.”

[saevel25]

Civil Engineer, I love physics. 

[Ty_Webb]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Masters in Chemical Engineering here and as we all know chemistry and engineering are really just physics. I’m nerdy too and do like discussing this stuff.

[GreenhornGolfer]

So while we're talking about physics I've got a question regarding physics and golf provides some excellent examples for what Im talking about. When you swing a stick in an arc the end of the stick will be moving faster than where you're holding it because it has to cover more distance in the same amount of time. An excellent example would be swinging a golf club. 

When you swing a golf club, say when you're teeing off with the driver, the head of the club is going to be going faster than the handle because it has to cover more distance in the same amount of time and the longer the club the faster the head will be going because with a longer club the head will have to cover an even greater distance in the same amount of time. That's why drivers are so long, they're meant for hitting the balls the furthest so you want the head to be going as fast as possible when it hits the ball. 

So I was wondering, what's it called in physics, about how when you swing a stick such as a golf club, how the head is moving faster than the handle because it has to cover more distance in the same amount of time. 

[GolfLug]

10 minutes ago, GreenhornGolfer said:

So while we're talking about physics I've got a question regarding physics and golf provides some excellent examples for what Im talking about. When you swing a stick in an arc the end of the stick will be moving faster than where you're holding it because it has to cover more distance in the same amount of time. An excellent example would be swinging a golf club. 

When you swing a golf club, say when you're teeing off with the driver, the head of the club is going to be going faster than the handle because it has to cover more distance in the same amount of time and the longer the club the faster the head will be going because with a longer club the head will have to cover an even greater distance in the same amount of time. That's why drivers are so long, they're meant for hitting the balls the furthest so you want the head to be going as fast as possible when it hits the ball. 

So I was wondering, what's it called in physics, about how when you swing a stick such as a golf club, how the head is moving faster than the handle because it has to cover more distance in the same amount of time. 

I don't think it is called anything singularly specific in scientific terms other than how you described it. Some might call it a pendulum motion or something but that's probably super simplistic and not adequate description/definition. Of course, there's a whole gamut/combo of causal physics, biomechanics and geometry that results in the phenomenon.

[DaveP043]

33 minutes ago, GreenhornGolfer said:

So I was wondering, what's it called in physics, about how when you swing a stick such as a golf club, how the head is moving faster than the handle because it has to cover more distance in the same amount of time. 

I think that would fall under the general umbrella of "kinematics".  And I'm sure that @iacas will correct me if I'm wrong, but in many cases the handle will be almost motionless by the time the clubhead impacts the ball.  

[iacas]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I think that would fall under the general umbrella of "kinematics".  And I'm sure that @iacas will correct me if I'm wrong, but in many cases the handle will be almost motionless by the time the clubhead impacts the ball.  

It's still moving, but it's not very fast (which "almost" might cover), and it begins slowing down around P5.5 to P6 in most good players, for a bunch of reasons. The math gets pretty complex pretty fast seeing as how we have two hands, the club is acting on them while we're acting on the club, etc.

[Ty_Webb]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I think that would fall under the general umbrella of "kinematics".  And I'm sure that @iacas will correct me if I'm wrong, but in many cases the handle will be almost motionless by the time the clubhead impacts the ball.  

I think I remember reading that Wilco Nienaber broke some record for having the fastest hands at around 27mph. His clubhead speed is probably of the order of 130mph or so, so that's roughly 5 times as fast. As Erik said, the math gets very complicated - it's at least a double pendulum system, but also with the "fixed" point moving and all the forces and torques applying to the club and the hands and the rest of the player start to get very complicated. My coach works with a biomechanist and between them they've put out a few books on the physics of the swing and it's hella complicated, but fascinating.

[Carl3]

11 hours ago, GreenhornGolfer said:

So I was wondering, what's it called in physics, about how when you swing a stick such as a golf club, how the head is moving faster than the handle because it has to cover more distance in the same amount of time.

Angular velocity and acceleration caused by torque.

[Ty_Webb]

22 hours ago, GreenhornGolfer said:

So I was wondering, what's it called in physics, about how when you swing a stick such as a golf club, how the head is moving faster than the handle because it has to cover more distance in the same amount of time. 

I'm not sure what the principle is called that you're referring to, but it's the same kind of thing as the wheels on a car when you're going round a bend. The wheel on the inside is going a shorter distance than the wheel on the outside because the radius is shorter, so the circumference of the arc is shorter. If you have a solid axle, then, absent anything done to fix it, one of the tires needs to slip, which is not good because static and dynamic friction tend to be different so once it starts slipping you are more likely to slide outwards as well. When I was looking at this stuff about 35 years ago, the way that was handled was to turn the outside wheel in a little more than the inside one, so they're actually following slightly different arcs and make the same number of rotations to go around the bend. The sharper the bend, the more the difference needs to be. I never quite figured out how that didn't cause other problems, but it seems to work. I think you can also fix it by having separate axles that can turn at different speeds.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

I think you can also fix it by having separate axles that can turn at different speeds.

I'm not a car guy but that's what a car's differential does, no?

[Ty_Webb]

26 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm not a car guy but that's what a car's differential does, no?

Yes - although I think that's normally the rear axle rather than the front (which is where the wheels turn typically).