Female Distance Problem

[xamilo]

Hello!

I wanted to ask you guys a question. My fiancee has been playing golf for about 6-8 months now. I have to say she is extremely accurate, and rarely hits a slice (which I admit I'm very jealous about), but she has A LOT of problems with her distance issue. She does great with short irons, but with her I5, 3-4 Hybrids, and 3,5-woods it seems she gets the same distance everytime, no matter which one she uses. Driver is about 150yds at most as well.

I've always been a long hitter, even when I couldn't get two straight balls in a row, so I really don't know if its just a matter of patience since "distance might develop with time", or if there is ANYTHING you think she might be able to do to improve such feature.

Thanks mates..

[Dent]

My mom has the exact same problem, I don't know what it is. But it could be an issue of strength, and swing speed.

I could never explain this either.

[homerjatmoes]

My wife had the same problem starting out, anything over her 4H went about 150 yards. She worked on ball position and swing with each club and now she's getting varied distances of around 10 yards a club and shes hitting 185+ yards with her driver.

[Shindig]

Hello!

In my starter set, my 4I and 5I were going the same distance for a while. I was sedentary for most of my pre-golf life, so a lack of athleticism may be the issue. How athletic is she?

[blackxpress]

I would guess her problem has to do with basic swing mechanics. Most likely she isn't getting a good hip turn on the downswing. You probably don't get a proper hip turn either but you're able to compensate with upper body strength, which explains why you have trouble with accuracy. Your arms are overpowering your lower body which causes your swing plane to be inconsistent. The typical female golfer has a whole lot less upper body strength than her male counterparts. If she wants to maximize her distance, the only way she can do that is by making sure her swing is as perfect as it can be. She has to get a full shoulder turn on the back swing (without breaking her left elbow), start the downswing with the hips and be sure to follow through all the way. Of course, the same rules apply to all golfers but most of us male amateurs struggle with our mechanics and flexiblity and try to make up the difference through brute strength, which is why we slice so bad. Just my $.02.

[Sherpat]

Hey xamilo, your finance may not be as short off the tee as you might think. At least as far as women golfers in general are concerned.

The USGA, which compiles data in the US in order to (among other things) determine Handicap and course ratings, says this about driving distances for male and female golfers of different abilities:

"Scratch Golfer: A male scratch golfer is a player who can play to a Course Handicap of zero on any and all rated golf courses. A male scratch golfer, for rating purposes, can hit tee shots an average of 250 yards and can reach a 470-yard hole in two shots at sea level.

A female scratch golfer is a player who can play to a Course Handicap of zero on any and all rated golf courses. A female scratch golfer, for rating purposes, can hit tee shots an average of 210 yards and can reach a 400-yard hole in two shots at sea level.

Bogey Golfer: A male bogey golfer is a player who has a Course Handicap™ of approximately 20 on a course of standard difficulty. He can hit tee shots an average of 200 yards and can reach a 370-yard hole in two shots at sea level.

A female bogey golfer is a player who has a Course Handicap of approximately 24 on a course of standard difficulty. She can hit tee shots an average of 150 yards and can reach a 280-yard hole in two shots at sea level."
You can read the entire "Course Rating Primer" here, in context.

So you fiance, assuming she's not a scratch player, is actually typical of a distaff duffer.

Why the discrepancy between genders? I know some have mentioned upper body strength, but that actually appears to be a non-factor. Look at some of the petite (particularly Asian) LPGA pro's who bomb it out there far past your average 200 pound ex-linebacker 18 Handicapper male. The only thing I've seen mentioned in credible studies is that the average HEIGHT of women is shorter than the average male. Shorter arms, shorter torso and narrower shoulders all translate to a shorter radius swing, and therefore lower clubhead speed. Unless she's skilled enough (like an LPGA pro) to both use a longer shafted driver AND swing it perfectly - with a lot of upper body coil to boot - she'll be shorter off the tee than a male even if they carry the same handicap.

Again, these are averages and so you'll find variation among individuals (giantess vs. Tom Thumb, for instance). But I suspect that's what she's dealing with.

If she's under 6 foot tall there may not be an awful lot you can do except have her work on building swing speed by increasing her upper body rotation in the back swing. But unless she's a committed athlete of scratch or better capability, lack of length may be something she's just going to have to resign herself to, like many amature women.

[Long&Right]

First, a caveat about the following advice - I am a fairly new golfer, but I've done sport-specific training for 25+ years (it just happened to be for other sports.)

I spent a lot of time considering what training aid would best help my game over the long haul, and I ended up with a heavy shafted club.

I purchased the Momentus - it seemed awful expensive for a piece of coated rebar with a grip and a clubhead, but it wasn't quite expensive enough to justify making something myself. I presume their marketing people spent a lot of time finding that exact price spot. Anyway, it's done a great job of allowing me to strengthen the specific muscles needed for golf while not creating bad swing habits (it's a lot harder to move a weighted shaft off-plane than it is to whip around a regular shaft.) As long as one practices fairly equally swinging in both directions (which is a good reason to buy the version that has a standard grip instead of the molded grip) then there shouldn't be an anatomical imbalance issue.

I swing it while standing on homemade wobble boards to improve my core strength and balance. Other core-strength exercises (think swiss-ball) would probably also benefit your GFs swing speed, which is what I suspect is the root cause of the distance issues in the longer irons.

The good news is that there shouldn't be any negative effect on her accuracy, so it seems as though the improvement would be linear and consistent.

[allin]

I suspect that if she has played for a limited time, that she does not have the confidence to swing the longer clubs aggressively enough. Women tend to shallow out their swings on longer clubs and release the club early, yes strength is part of this. High lofted woods like a 9 wood often minimize this issue since they are meant to be swept anyway. Adjusting loft gaps to 5 or even six degrees can help also.

[elchene]

People with slower swing speeds tend to hit their longer clubs the same distance. Same goes for younger kids who play golf. When I first started, even at 11 years old, I hit most of my longer clubs the same distances with varied roll and trajectory. I don't know exactly when that stopped happening but it was only a couple of months. When her swing gets better and her swing speed increases, she'll start to see differences in distance.

[lamebums]

People with slower swing speeds tend to hit their longer clubs the same distance. Same goes for younger kids who play golf. When I first started, even at 11 years old, I hit most of my longer clubs the same distances with varied roll and trajectory. I don't know exactly when that stopped happening but it was only a couple of months. When her swing gets better and her swing speed increases, she'll start to see differences in distance.

That can be a big one--with a lower clubhead speed, it's harder to get the ball up in the air, especially with the less-lofted irons and driver.

[jasongst]

My wife is strong (she does weight training multiple times a week), but when I put a golf club in her hands it seems her initial tendency is to swing slowly and awkwardly. Granted, she's not a golfer, so the club must feel rather alien in her hands, but I just get the feeling she's lacking a certain "edge" that is necessary when hitting the ball. Look at the women on the LPGA tour: they are strong, but they aren't exactly body builders, and they aren't all tall, yet they hit it really far, relatively speaking. I'm wondering if the biggest differences aren't only mechanical, but also lacking the desire to aggressively hit the ball the way a martial artist would punch at a board. I've seen this lack of "edge" in male golfers too from time to time. I know a lot of it may have to do with past injury, or maybe just not playing baseball or having any pinatas growing up. (You gotta hit that thing like you wanna cause pain!!!)

Is it possible to have strong "normal" muscles but weak "twitch" muscles?

[xamilo]

Thnak you guys for the advice. I wasn't expecting to get so much imput!!!

I'll try all the stuff you wrote, and then I'll tell you what might have worked for her, just for statistical purposes lol.

Thanks again mates,

Cheers...

[kurtbayne]

My 1st post on a golf forum ever !
Keep in mind (1) total stranger (2) woeful lack of data (3) not golf-schooled (4) I *HAVE* hit tens of thousands of balls on the range in the last 6 months or so, and have good effortless distance on the range

Show this to your girlfriend:

To me,
No distance + good accuracy =
over-focusing on ball/club/hands/arms to create accuracy
at the expense of distance

1. You can only get real pro distance by effectively using your entire body to generate clubhead speed at impact. Unfortunately, using your entire body to efficiently generate power and accuracy is very complicated to learn as an adult. Think "Martian Chinese Calculus" difficult.

2. There's no "secret" or shortcut to getting big long distance. If there was, half of all golfers would be hitting long, instead of the current 1-2%. It takes lots of practice and study, which you probably don't have time for, since you have a job and a fiancee and probably want to actually play golf once in a while.

3. Knowledge is *literally* power in golf. Michelle Wie is not stronger than your boyfriend. Not even close. But she KNOWS how to use her BODY to swing a club super-fast at impact.

4. If you are committed to hitting long, and are allergic to books and studying, I'd say this for advice. (a) HIT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF BALLS WITH YOUR EYES CLOSED. Balls into a net in the garage with your boyfriend feeding you balls, or ball on a string that you can reset eyes closed. Even just swinging with no ball can help. Accuracy is very NOT important. Body parts will hurt/break down. This just means a part of the swing that needs change/correction, often because you will not let it take its natural path. Work around injuries, and massage out ligament/tendon scar tissue (b) CONCENTRATE ON LOWER BODY. Stop obsessing about hands grip club arms and move down to torso hips knees feet balance (c) BIG BALANCED BEAUTIFUL (BBB) this is your mantra. BIG = body extended and tall, long arms, long legs, maximum clubhead arc/path - this helps to activate the entire body. Don't swing HARDER, swing BIGGER and LONGER. BALANCED = keeping a sense of balance always in mind during the swing and using it to magically create power. BEAUTIFUL = always looking to have a more beautiful swing, more lower body or total body, more fluid, more smooth, more effortless, more magical. Effortless power instead of powerless effort. A million beautiful misses will steer you much better towards a pro distance swing than a million sensible serviceable whatever-gets-me-thru-today swings. So your balls spray all over the place on the course. So what? You're a beautiful woman, ergo, you need a beautiful swing. Your boyfriend or girlfriends don't like the result? Tell them, "don't let the door hit you on the way out". NEVER be sorry about the result of a shot. Be PROUD that you're willing to sacrifice accuracy and utility for beauty and power. This I think is the best mindset to eventually hit balls with pro distance and, with much practice, pro accuracy.

[tm22721]

I have seen long hitters up close and they tend to have good ball contact even with maximum swing width and lag, a difficult thing to control without tons of practice and balance. They can always hit the ball in the sweetspot of the driver face. Also they can stretch their left side to the stiffness of a post which accelerates the clubhead during the pivot due to centrifugal force. The downside is that they are out of their left shoe at impact, Angel Cabrera is an extreme case. Tiger's continuing left knee problems are due to overstretching the left side.

[tiger_who]

one reason she my be losing distance ie because she may be casting the club with is causing her to lose swing speed and less distance try getting a lession wiht ur pro or even film your swing to look for any faults
hope this helps:)

[Long&Right]

BIG BALANCED BEAUTIFUL (BBB) this is your mantra. BIG = body extended and tall, long arms, long legs, maximum clubhead arc/path - this helps to activate the entire body. Don't swing HARDER, swing BIGGER and LONGER. BALANCED = keeping a sense of balance always in mind during the swing and using it to magically create power. BEAUTIFUL = always looking to have a more beautiful swing, more lower body or total body, more fluid, more smooth, more effortless, more magical. Effortless power instead of powerless effort. A million beautiful misses will steer you much better towards a pro distance swing than a million sensible serviceable whatever-gets-me-thru-today swings.

Hey, I like the attitude in that, Kurt. I also like the idea of lots of eyes-closed swings; it should be easy to recognize when you are over or under swinging when the only real sensory input is the feel of the swing.

[blackxpress]

My wife is strong (she does weight training multiple times a week), but when I put a golf club in her hands it seems her initial tendency is to swing slowly and awkwardly. Granted, she's not a golfer, so the club must feel rather alien in her hands, but I just get the feeling she's lacking a certain "edge" that is necessary when hitting the ball. Look at the women on the LPGA tour: they are strong, but they aren't exactly body builders, and they aren't all tall, yet they hit it really far, relatively speaking. I'm wondering if the biggest differences aren't only mechanical, but also lacking the desire to aggressively hit the ball the way a martial artist would punch at a board. I've seen this lack of "edge" in male golfers too from time to time. I know a lot of it may have to do with past injury, or maybe just not playing baseball or having any pinatas growing up. (You gotta hit that thing like you wanna cause pain!!!)

The key here is your reference to martial artists. I train in martial arts and can tell you that, although we do some strength training, the key to powerful punches is not strength but technique. The same holds true for a golf swing. The power in both the punch and the golf swing comes from the ground, which is the point I was trying to make before. If you get a full shoulder turn in the backswing and full hip rotation on the downswing you'll hit the ball a lot farther regardless of how strong you are. You mention the LPGA. Some of those women are strong, some are not. Lorena Ochoa, for example, is not all that big and I dare say, not all that strong, but look how far she hits the ball. She gets that distance because she has learned how to use her big muscles to their full potential. The power in her swing comes from her legs and hips, not from her arms and wrists. The reason your wife swings slowly and awkwardly is because she is probably trying to muscle the club with her upper body. Most likely her grip is way too tight and her biceps and forearms are flexed to the point that it actually slows down her swing (if I had to guess).

From time to time I play golf with a guy that's a sophomore in High School. He's a skinny little kid. I'm sure I'm a whole lot stronger than he is. But that boy can hit a golf ball from here to kingdom come. It's truly amazing. He doesn't get all that distance with strength. He gets it with form. I watch him swing the club and can only wish I was half as flexible and coordinated as he is.

[Avid Golfer]

Hello!

In general most women I see seem to have too much movement in the swing (a few have too little). I often see women who turn their hips too much in the backswing (loosing coil and x-factor), loose flex in their legs (again loosing coil), swinging past parallel (loosing arms/body sync and reducing the chance of solid contact), and finally using their arms (as opposed to an arms/body combination) to drive their swing (reducing swing speed).

My recommendation would be for her to work on a stable (fundamentally sound) setup, and keeping her arms and body in sync during the swing (like we see with players like Annika Sorenstam). http://drop.io/sorenstamsync#