Plumb Bobbing (Putting) Master Thread

[jcorfive]

I don't plum bob because I don't really feel like it does anything for me. As said above if you move your head slightly off center it will throw your measurement off.

What I have tried is the Villegas (I believe its him) spider-man method. I used it on a couple of 5-8 foot putts and man I felt like I had one of the best looks at the green yet. However, I also felt somewhat like an ass when I noticed other golfers staring at me while I was on the green; mostly because it does appear to slow down your rate of play to someone else far away, even though it doesn't really take that long.

[PiKapp23]

Not sure I'm a big believer in it but this weeks Wedge Guy column addresses this very thing:

http://www.oobgolf.com/content/the+w...d_Greens_.html

[RC]

I think I am going to learn to do it next year... I've been trying to do it for 53 years and it has never worked, but just one more year of practice and I'll get it. (My feet tell me more than a plumb bob)

Every year, at least once or twice, I'll hold up the old putter, acting like this is finally going to tell me how this puzzling putt breaks. Then it dawns on me -- no it won't, it never has worked. Then this other guy I play will plumb bob his putt, and miss it and claim, "It plumbed to break the other way." He plumbs all the time and sometimes it works for him. I'm suspicious, does the law of averages get the break right 50 percent of the time?

For all of you that do it and it works for you -- great, but I can't make it work.

[David in FL]

I find that it's somewhat helpful for in determining some subtle breaks. The technique has a number of limitations that have to be understood and as others have mentioned, many don't really know how to do it properly in the first place.

[pjsnyc]

Plum bobbing is horsesh*t - but I do do something that looks just like it when I'm reading putts - I read the green normally to try to figure out a good starting line then use the shaft of my putter to help me line it up to that starting line. Kinda like how you pick an intermediate target when doing full swing shots by holding the shaft up off the ground and pointing the head to your target. Helps line up that blade of grass 4 feet in front.

[jorruss]

I think beginning golfers just do it to look cool.

Here's a good article about why it doesn't work:

http://blogs.golf.com/top100/2009/01...e-top-1-1.html

[RC]

I have noticed that on days the wind is blowing over 30 mph, plumb bobbing indicated all the greens have strange contours -- either that or some bulge in the earth's magma is pushing up the ground on one side of the golf course, or something.

[P3R3]

I do it because it is part of my pre shot routine. Doesn't ever make me change a line but it help me get comfortable right before a putt.

[iacas]

http://blogs.golf.com/top100/2009/01...e-top-1-1.html

HA! I loved all the morons in that thread saying things like "of course it works!"

This one may have been my favorite:

How dumb can you be!?? Plumb bobbing is simply a vertical line produced by gravity that is superimposed over a view of the putting line. This gives the player an immediate read of the slope of the ground,or putting surface, and allows the determination of the direction the putt will flow. Grain and other conditions will dictate the extent of the break. It's SIMPLE PHYSICS, Dummas! Has worked for over 40 years in my experience.

Simple physics? Sorry, physics tells you it doesn't work.

[CarlSpackler]

I am not a fan. I can misread a putt just as easy without it. I see more issues with distance control on putts than with reads. On most of my putts, a misread will leave me with +/- several inches where a bad speed will leave +/- several feet. I just aim a little more to the high side to increase my chances of it falling and focus on speed.

[whit53]

Here's the truth when it comes to plumb bobbing.

I'm going to respectfully disagree...... Physics, as it is defined, is "the science of matter and energy and their interactions" and has nothing to do w/ the practice of plumb-bobbing. Plumb-bobbing is intended as a use of a reference point to determine the

geometric relationship between lines, slopes and degrees of deflection. In much the same way as an inclinometer offers the "elevation or inclination of an object with respect to gravity".... Plumb-bobbing can, in fact, provide some insight as to lateral effects of slope and gravity for a given hole's position........... relative to a straight line. The suggestion that it does not work for everyone, does not preclude geometry's net value.

[iacas]

I'm going to respectfully disagree...... Physics, as it is defined, is "the science of matter and energy and their interactions" and has nothing to do w/ the practice of plumb-bobbing.

Gravity is physics, and that plays a role.

But ok, I'll avoid the over-used "physics" and rephrase it: geometry and common sense tell you it's complete b.s.

Plumb-bobbing is intended as a use of a reference point to determine the

There are only two reference points: the ball and your hole. Basic geometry tells us that we can create a line from two points, and if you stand directly on that line, holding a putter vertical will connect those two points.

If you stand to the side of the line - or move your eye to one side of the line or the other - then the putter can be made to go through only one of them. But that doesn't prove which way a putt breaks. Shift your head to the other side and the putt will magically "appear" to break the other way. There's no logical, physical, or geometric way that plumb bobbing makes any sense at all. It's a mental ploy used to reinforce what your mind - conscious or sub - has already determined. This guy knows a bit about putting:

Source: Geoff Mangum Why doesn't the shaft align with both the ball and the hole, regardless of the slope? Well, the short answer is that it does! Every single time. It's not possible to construct a scenario of ball, green contour, and hole in which one cannot position the head and eye so that the ball and hole align along a vertically suspended putter shaft. It's just a matter of the direction you aim your dominant eye's gaze. If you actually aim the gaze along the true line from ball to hole, the shaft will always align both the ball and the hole, regardless of slope and regardless of posture. If you don't believe this, then the next time you plumb bob a putt with obvious slope and get your standard hole-to-the-side alignment, glide your head laterally a bit behind the shaft until the ball and hole are perfectly aligned. Where'd the break go? The shaft is vertical, your head and eye position relative to the shaft are the same, but the plumb bobbing's "apparent" slope has disappeared. The only difference is the direction of your gaze. In other words, if your body-head-eye axis is vertical to gravity, sighting along a shaft that is also vertical to gravity ALWAYS aligns the ball and hole UNLESS YOUR DIRECTION OF GAZE IS OFF TO START WITH.

Later he says what I've been saying:

Source: Geoff Mangum So, what if anything is useful and accurate from plumb bobbing? Plumb bobbing strikes people as effective because it confirms the subconscious read of slope (not break), which depends upon posture and sighting-alignment biases, and because in these cases it seems seldom to hurt the putt.

[David in FL]

This guy knows a bit about putting:

He may know a bit about putting, but he doesn't seem to understand geometry very well. Why the hate for plumb bobbing? I admit, there are a lot of issues with the practice. The biggest is the one that most people don't even acknowlege........plumb bobbing assumes that the relationship between the contours between where you're standing and the hole remain constant the entire distance between you and the hole, and of course, that's seldom the case. Another is that the club head weighting on a lot of putters affects their ability to hang with the shaft perfectly vertical. For people who understand the geometry and understand the limitations in the practice, the physical laws are what they are, and they can be used to help determine the relationship in contour between two different parts of the green. That's all there is to it. If it doesn't work for you, or if the results aren't worth the effort, that's fine. I only find it helpful on rare occassion myself, but that's a far cry from declaring the practice complete B.S. Having said that, I'll bet a paycheck that the average "bobber" doesn't have a clue what he's doing or what the limitations and challenges associated with it are. But as you mentioned, if the practice does nothing more than confirm what the golfer already knows subconsciously, it still could still be a benefit in giving him the confidence to make a good stroke, rather than a tentative jab.

[wedge player]

does anyone else think this is horsesh*t? I've watched many videos on it, hell, I've even had people explain it to me in person so I know I'm doing it right. Every time I do it I never see anything special. The hole doesn't look like it's on either side of the shaft etc.... I have 20-15 vision so I know it's not my eyes. WTF is going on?! lol

i plumb bob all puts its not likew its a better read just faster

It's bullshit. The physics of it make absolutely no sense. By moving your head slightly you can make a left-to-right putt "appear" to break right-to-left when you're plumb bobbing. It does nothing and makes no sense at all. A line is defined by two points - I can line up the ball and the hole every time with my putter shaft, even with a 45° slope in between.

all i can say is after 2 years of doing it ive never got a line wrong,hitting its a differant story though

[iacas]

He may know a bit about putting, but he doesn't seem to understand geometry very well.

He understands the geometry just fine. Plumb bobbing doesn't make any sense - geometrically, physically, whatever.

I only find it helpful on rare occassion myself, but that's a far cry from declaring the practice complete B.S.

It's complete B.S. Like I said, you can make any putt break any way you want just by moving your head slightly. Or by standing in a different position.

You plumb bobbers... wow. Blindly believing in something that can't be explained at all. Why don't you just learn to read greens? That's all plumb bobbing is doing - bringing out what your brain is already trying to tell you.

[microcrayfish]

If it helps people psychologically then it's not completely B.S.. Last time I checked there's not a lot of scientific evidence that God exists but that doesn't mean that the concept of a divine being doesn't serve a valid purpose in people's lives. It's the same deal with plumb bobbing, it might not make any sense scientifically but if it makes people think that they putt better then it's a valid technique because as we all know the mind is a very powerful thing in golf. Is a pre-shot routine B.S. because it doesn't scientifically help you get the ball in the hole? No, so what's different with plumb bobbing?

[iacas]

If it helps people psychologically then it's not completely B.S.

From a geometry and logical standpoint, it is.

The difference between religion and plumb bobbing is that with plumb bobbing, people believe in something that's easily proven wrong. Your post is like saying "if someone believes that spinning around three times before they putt helps them, it's not just b.s." It is, because it has nothing to do with helping them putt better. Confidence is one thing, but I'm of the opinion that you should use your conscious mind to read putts, to actively think and look and determine, rather than use your subconscious mind to force your body to try to show you the line. I think that's the best way to be confident in your line, and I think most people will get better results.

[pjsnyc]

...The difference between religion and plumb bobbing is that with plumb bobbing...

STOP RIGHT THERE! I'm sorry, but this thread is starting to get funny.

I agree with microcrayfish though in that the ends justify the means. Mathematically I think its balderdash, but if it helps why the heck not - just don't be that guy that takes 10 minutes to plumb only to leave the ball 10 ft short of the hole.