Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by The Tin Man

Cast, forged, copper, BeNi - they all feel different to me but not significantly different.  What I would really like to see is a smoother transition from the scoring irons into the wedges.  SCOR golf (used to be Eidolon) has made a set this way, but I haven't read any feedback on them yet.

You'd like to see a smoother transition from the scoring irons into the wedges? What exactly about picking a wedge gap that works for you (i.e. 4, 5, 6 degrees) and a sole grind that works for you is not working for you?

For me, if a wedge looks and feels like crap it's more than likely cast - probably a coincidence.

[xxsoultonesxx]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

For me, if a wedge looks and feels like crap it's more than likely cast - probably a coincidence.

Whaaat??  Some of the best wedges I've ever used are cast. My Scratch 8620's are the cats pajamas. Ping Eye 2 wedges are awesome, I've got a couple Nike SV tour wedges that are also too good to get rid of. All cast wedges.

But I haven't felt too many crummy forged wedges. I get what you are saying, though. 9/10 of forged wedges will be nice, where there are many crappy cast wedges all over the map.

I was thinking I needed a set of matching wedges in my bag for a consistent flow, after playing about a dozen different wedges, I now like a variety in the bag at any time, for bounce/shape options and weight and shotmaking capability.

Nothing feels better than having the right wedge in your hand.

[The Tin Man]

http://www.scorgolf.com/

I haven't found a review on line yet.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

You'd like to see a smoother transition from the scoring irons into the wedges? What exactly about picking a wedge gap that works for you (i.e. 4, 5, 6 degrees) and a sole grind that works for you is not working for you?

For me, if a wedge looks and feels like crap it's more than likely cast - probably a coincidence.

[FivePutt]

I'm a beginning golfer.  I'm nearing the eight month mark since the first time I swung a club.

I'm shooting in the mid-low 90s and my biggest problems are duffed shots off the fairway and a horribly inconsistent short game.  I'm learning the game by myself and judging my mistakes through ball flight.

My first set of clubs was a VINTAGE set from the 1970s that I bought for way too much money on craigslist.  Then I bought some new modern clubs that had some game improvement features.  Then I found a deal on a set of Cobra Pro CB forged irons that was just too good to pass up (reputable distributor, don't worry).

My question is something I've been debating with my friends for a while now and I would really appreciate more input on the matter.

The way I see it, I'd rather play with irons that are VERY unforgiving in order to establish solid fundamentals.  That way I know exactly when I hit the ball correctly and can work on repeating that feel.  I know that I'm going to struggle more, but I also feel like I will have a more refined swing if I continue learning with the Pro CBs instead of getting to a decent level with game improvement irons and switching to more difficult ones later.  My focus right now is learning how to swing properly.  Not so much focused my scores.

I'm pretty competitive and I enjoy the challenge, but I was wondering if you guys thought playing with irons beyond my skill level would stunt/delay my growth, or provide the benefit of solid fundamentals.  I don't think the run/walk comparison really applies here, because it's more like assisted walking vs unassisted walking... right?

Thanks!

[bjornarneson]

Originally Posted by FivePutt

I'm a beginning golfer.  I'm nearing the eight month mark since the first time I swung a club.

I'm shooting in the mid-low 90s and my biggest problems are duffed shots off the fairway and a horribly inconsistent short game.  I'm learning the game by myself and judging my mistakes through ball flight.

My first set of clubs was a VINTAGE set from the 1970s that I bought for way too much money on craigslist.  Then I bought some new modern clubs that had some game improvement features.  Then I found a deal on a set of Cobra Pro CB forged irons that was just too good to pass up (reputable distributor, don't worry).

My question is something I've been debating with my friends for a while now and I would really appreciate more input on the matter.

The way I see it, I'd rather play with irons that are VERY unforgiving in order to establish solid fundamentals.  That way I know exactly when I hit the ball correctly and can work on repeating that feel.  I know that I'm going to struggle more, but I also feel like I will have a more refined swing if I continue learning with the Pro CBs instead of getting to a decent level with game improvement irons and switching to more difficult ones later.  My focus right now is learning how to swing properly.  Not so much focused my scores.

I'm pretty competitive and I enjoy the challenge, but I was wondering if you guys thought playing with irons beyond my skill level would stunt/delay my growth, or provide the benefit of solid fundamentals.  I don't think the run/walk comparison really applies here, because it's more like assisted walking vs unassisted walking... right?

Thanks!

I think you're on the right track. You've got some good sticks (assuming that they fit your body geometry reasonably well). You profess to be process-oriented, not score-oriented, right now. More power to you!

[TyWebbb]

As long as you don't get too discouraged by the mis-hits keep it up.  The Cobra's will be more honest with you.

[xmanhockey7]

I see nothing wrong with doing either. Personally I'd say go with the more forgiving game improvement irons while you learn to make a good golf swing  (and lets face it this game is too hard)then once you get better maybe go back to the Cobras. If sticking with the Cobras is what you think is best more power to ya but I would recommend taking that money you were considering spending on new irons and get some lessons.

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by FivePutt

I'm a beginning golfer.  I'm nearing the eight month mark since the first time I swung a club.

I'm shooting in the mid-low 90s and my biggest problems are duffed shots off the fairway and a horribly inconsistent short game.  I'm learning the game by myself and judging my mistakes through ball flight.

My first set of clubs was a VINTAGE set from the 1970s that I bought for way too much money on craigslist.  Then I bought some new modern clubs that had some game improvement features.  Then I found a deal on a set of Cobra Pro CB forged irons that was just too good to pass up (reputable distributor, don't worry).

My question is something I've been debating with my friends for a while now and I would really appreciate more input on the matter.

The way I see it, I'd rather play with irons that are VERY unforgiving in order to establish solid fundamentals.  That way I know exactly when I hit the ball correctly and can work on repeating that feel.  I know that I'm going to struggle more, but I also feel like I will have a more refined swing if I continue learning with the Pro CBs instead of getting to a decent level with game improvement irons and switching to more difficult ones later.  My focus right now is learning how to swing properly.  Not so much focused my scores.

I'm pretty competitive and I enjoy the challenge, but I was wondering if you guys thought playing with irons beyond my skill level would stunt/delay my growth, or provide the benefit of solid fundamentals.  I don't think the run/walk comparison really applies here, because it's more like assisted walking vs unassisted walking... right?

Thanks!

I totally agree with this approach for everything, not just golf. In tennis, I prefer smaller heavier rackets. Kayaking, I prefer a fast SIK to a tubby SOT. Fishing, I prefer casting to spinning.

I always like sensitive equipment that gives me good feedback and responds to my input.

[FivePutt]

Originally Posted by xmanhockey7

I see nothing wrong with doing either. Personally I'd say go with the more forgiving game improvement irons while you learn to make a good golf swing  (and lets face it this game is too hard)then once you get better maybe go back to the Cobras. If sticking with the Cobras is what you think is best more power to ya but I would recommend taking that money you were considering spending on new irons and get some lessons.

Already bought the Cobras about a month and a half ago. Cost me less than three lessons.  The website had a free shipping coupon, and also a big percentage off used left handed clubs.  Super lucky find.

Originally Posted by dak4n6

I totally agree with this approach for everything, not just golf. In tennis, I prefer smaller heavier rackets. Kayaking, I prefer a fast SIK to a tubby SOT. Fishing, I prefer casting to spinning.

I always like sensitive equipment that gives me good feedback and responds to my input.

Same here.  I don't mind mishits.  It gives me something to think about for my next shot.  When I hit it anywhere but the sweet spot on the Cobras I can really feel the ugly impact in my hands.  Even though the ball might go close to where I want, I'm not happy with the swing and that's what I'm focused on the most.  If I hit it just right to where the only thing I can feel in my hands is the club cutting through the grass and hear the ball cutting through the air, then even if I hit it long or off target then I know my only problem was club selection and alignment.  And I want to worry about those things after my golf swing isn't this much of a factor.

And hitting the sweet spot with the Cobras and crushing a golf ball is pretty much the best feeling I've experienced since I started playing.  Or since I was born actually.

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by FivePutt

And hitting the sweet spot with the Cobras and crushing a golf ball is pretty much the best feeling I've experienced since I started playing.  Or since I was born actually.

Yup, the feeling of compressing a ball with a players club is unmatched by anything except one thing, and I've got some nice filet mignon and red wine for dinner that might help me with that tonight

[MisterE]

This started in another thread, thought it may deserve its own place.  Any scientific or subjective ponderings would be welcome.

My personal experience is that forged heads have a better feel than cast.

The difference is how they are made:  Forged irons start as a block of metal and are basicly pressed into the right shape, Cast irons are liquid metal put into a mold (or cast) and cooled to make their shape.

Thoughts?

[Golfingdad]

Typed in "forged cast" on the search bar at the top of the page and got dozens of returns.  A thread like this pops up about every week it seems.  Here's the "master:" http://thesandtrap.com/t/1358/master-forged-vs-cast-or-blade-vs-game-improvement-iron-thread

For the record, I havve never hit a forged iron so I have no opinion.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Forged irons are definitely composed of a softer metal.  Perhaps a skilled golfer can tell the difference between 17-4 stainless cast and a quality forged iron, but I would think it would be difficult for someone to noticeably feel a difference between 431 cast steel and a forged club.  All things being equal that is.

[MisterE]

didn't know there was a master thread, just thought it would be a fun discussion

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by MisterE

didn't know there was a master thread, just thought it would be a fun discussion

I see no reason to stop discussing in this thread.  I think it's a great debate.

[moparman426]

Edited.

My entire post got nuked with the tread relocate, I should have known better.  Not retyping.

[GaijinGolfer]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

Forged irons are definitely composed of a softer metal.  Perhaps a skilled golfer can tell the difference between 17-4 stainless cast and a quality forged iron, but I would think it would be difficult for someone to noticeably feel a difference between 431 cast steel and a forged club.  All things being equal that is.

Thats where the percieved softness of forged clubs comes in.  A lot of people think that forging caused the softness but the softness comes from the metal used, not the manufacturing process.  Take Vokeys for example.  They are cast but are made from carbon steel, so they are soft as could be.

I used to think that feel was a big deal but lately Ive read a lot about what players think they feel and what reality is and how very different those 2 things can be, so its caused me to question just how important feel really is.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

Thats where the percieved softness of forged clubs comes in.  A lot of people think that forging caused the softness but the softness comes from the metal used, not the manufacturing process.  Take Vokeys for example.  They are cast but are made from carbon steel, so they are soft as could be.

I used to think that feel was a big deal but lately Ive read a lot about what players think they feel and what reality is and how very different those 2 things can be, so its caused me to question just how important feel really is.

I've also read that clubs cast from 17-4 can be half a club longer on average than forged clubs of a similar shape.