Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread

[pal51961]

All the companies you mentioned, with the exception of Ping also make a forged club. Obviously people play what feels good to them. I recently mentioned in a thread that they did a test with tour pros, blind test with a forged and cast club and 90% of the players could not tell the difference. I play forged, I think they feel more solid through the set. I don't think anyone should get hung up on forged or not. Hit tons of clubs and see which one feels right to you. As long is there is no extreme perimeter weighting you should be able to work the ball easily with a cb cast head. The things that pros look for are: Little or no offset, small head, thin topline, and playable sole for all turf conditions. Then they concern themselves with CG. They look for trajectory control, mid to high flight on the 3-6 and less height on the 7-P. People should concern themselves more with getting the right shaft, getting their clubs fitted. Just my opinion.

[misty_mountainhop]

  farmer said:

Compared to the blades of the 60's and 70's, todays blades are considerably more forgiving due to the length of the blade.

Not quite; longer blade doesn't necessarily mean a CoG nearer the toe. Usually happens as part of the perimeter weighting but IMO the main thing with CB/perimeter weighted heads is the enlargement of the CoG

cf . blades. Bigger CoG, more forgiving. CBs also often have a lower CoG and hence are easier to get airborne. CBs often have a shorter hosel than blades and the weight that would have been in the hosel is redistributed to give more perimeter weighting/lower CoG; some of the modern blade-style clubs do this too - I think the newer offerings from Titleist are a case in point. Use what you like; like what you use.

[pal51961]

It would seem that after 73 pages or responses to this subject we could end it here and say "play the club that feels good to you". All top line clubs are capable of hitting every shot you will ever need. Now go focus on practicing, that is where the answer to your questions reside.....in the dirt, go dig them out.

[pal51961]

Misty, I notice you play the 1025M's. That could very well be the best forged blade ever made. Forged by Hoffman, they are truly easy to hit. The long irons go high and straight, the short irons are deadly accurate. I love Macgregor, too bad about their demise. Take care.

[iacas]

  pal51961 said:

It would seem that after 73 pages or responses to this subject we could end it here and say "play the club that feels good to you".

Well, part of the reason is that I merged a bunch of threads together.

But I also happen to agree with you here.

[swpgolf]

I feel that the "look" of the club has a lot to do with the confidence you have in making a good swing. The look of forged irons is something that appeals to me (and the feel when you really hit one on the sweet spot). So, with some "game improvement" irons being forged these days with cavity backs and a little thicker topline, seems to me you can have the best of both worlds. Mizuno MX 950's come to mind.

[2-dogs]

Couldnt read through the 73 pages :) but here's one chestnut I have always found interesting in the forged vs cast debate ....

Forged dont feel softer, they sound softer.

No-one can feel the difference in metal from hitting a relatively-soft as butter golf ball. No-one.

So don't use "I like a soft feeling club" as your excuse for buying clubs that look and sound nice :)

Forged clubs can be bent (lie and loft etc) easily, but also need attention to un-wanted changes in these same angles.

Find something you like the look of, and that fits your specific game ... and if sound matters ... sounds right :)

[sean_miller]

  2-dogs said:

Forged dont feel softer, they sound softer.. . :)

What causes the sound? I think it starts with a "V" and rhymes with "sedation".

[DonW]

I bought Wilson DI7s (SGI clubs) at the start of the season and I have struggled with my iron play all season, hit it nice and high and distance is very consistent but couldn't hit the green to save my life (my GIR absolutely suck this season and it has been very depressing trying to improve it). The short irons just don't seem as versatile, my old set I would use my pitching wedge for a whole variety of distances and the DI7 wedge just wasn't working for me. Long story short I stumbled across a new set of PI7s (according to Wilson a players iron) at the local Play it Again priced way below retail, thought what do I have to lose, only one round but my GIR stat more than doubled and I'm hitting my distances just as well. I'm hoping this isn't just a short honeymoon but I'm very happy, haven't played this good since my thirties. It may be all mental, these PIs look just like the blades I grew up playing as a kid at address, but I don't care what it is so far it's working.

[2-dogs]

  sean_miller said:

What causes the sound? I think it starts with a "V" and rhymes with "sedation".

No ... you cannot feel the difference between forged and cast ... you can't.

[Blades4me]

  2-dogs said:

No ... you cannot feel the difference between forged and cast ... you can't.

May be you can't, but I can.

I had a set of Maxfli A 10's (cast head) and a set of MacGregor 1025 V-foils (forged head). The A 10's felt a little more muted than the V-foils. Not to say one felt better than the other, just a little different feel. Granted 90% of pro's couldn't feel a difference, but there were 10% that could. Being more of a "feel" player has helped me with this.

[iacas]

  Blades4me said:

May be you can't, but I can.

No, you really can't.

Did you hit forged and cast clubs in a blind test in which both clubs had the exact same shape, weighting, etc.? Can I feel the difference between a Ping G15 5-iron and a Mizuno MP-68 5-iron? Yeah, but I can also tell the difference between an MP-68 and an MP-52 - big deal. Neither mean I can tell the difference between forged and cast. Two clubs forged the exact same way will feel different with different shafts, different head designs, different weighting, etc.

[Jay-Bird]

  Blades4me said:

May be you can't, but I can.

You can't "feel" (phsyically) the difference.

You might "feel" (believe) that you can.

[zrlaegel]

you can feel the difference between forged and cast. i think the word soft is overused but there is quite a noticable difference. the cast when struck tend to vibrate quite a bit more and you can feel when the face of the club strikes the ball whereas on forged clubs it is barely noticeable the type of shaft one is using

[iacas]

  Jay-Bird said:

You can't "feel" (phsyically) the difference.

Yeah, that's another way to put it.

[sean_miller]

  iacas said:

No, you really can't.

I concur that perceptible differences in feel have much to do with clubhead design (i.e. a smallish thin soled forged blade versus an oversized wide soled investment cast cavity back), the usage of ferrules, and the shaft/grip combination. Likely as much, if not more, than the differences in metal alloy and manufacturing process. Golfers for decades have been providing what appears to be empirical evidence of detectable feel differences between forged and cast iron heads (the aforementioned PGA Touring Professional study notwithstanding). Perhaps their answer to this question is better rerephrased as, "Of the irons I have personally used, I prefer the feel of forged blade irons over investment cast cavity back irons (or vise versa)". I may claim to detect a difference between my forged and my cast irons, but could I correctly identify (with 100% certainty) which of two otherwise identical irons is the forged and which is the cast, after making a driving range comparison with my eyes closed and ears plugged? Not exactly. Having never been presented with such a unique opportunity, like many other golfers, I can only rely on empirical evidence gathered over many years of hitting both cast/stainless steel and forged irons (at the range and on the course) when all my senses played a part (yes, stainless steel also tastes different than forged carbon steel but that's a topic for another thread). I've owned and/or hit a few sets of cast irons over the years and I can't really say I enjoyed any them. Maybe it's becuse I was a different player then, or maybe it's because the feel (or sound) was simply not pleasing to me - it brought me no joy. I got rid of them all eventually (except for my sets of 40s era Spalding Tour Models). Granted, I didn't have the cream of the investment cast crop (mid 80s Ram Accubar, TaylorMade ICW5, no name Ping Eye2 knockoffs, Pinseekers (~ 1980 see link to pick up your own set http://cgi.ebay.com/SET-IRONS-PINSEE...d=350233002779 ), Stan Thompson blades (kept the SW for the wife's bag) and probably others I've forgotten about. I've hung onto most of the forged irons I've picked up over the years (not going to divulge how many sets I really own in case my wife finds out truth) because every time I take an old set of forged blades to the range, I'm blown away by how good they feel. I won't wax poetic about the best feeling irons of the bunch because in the end, it's still completely subjective (and also on the off chance that drives up the price a smidgen on ebay). All I can say for certain is, of all the irons I've hit over the years, the ones that feel the best to me have always been forged. That doesn't mean they're better, they just feel that way.

[2-dogs]

  sean_miller said:

I concur that perceptible differences in feel have much to do with clubhead design (i.e. a smallish thin soled forged blade versus an oversized wide soled investment cast cavity back), the usage of ferrules, and the shaft/grip combination. Likely as much, if not more, than the differences in metal alloy and manufacturing process.

Thats the crux of it right there. Spot on.

Historically the design of a forged club has been significantly different to the head design of a cast club. Its not the metal in the head that is softer or harder that makes you feel the difference.

[Blades4me]

  Jay-Bird said:

You can't "feel" (phsyically) the difference.

Hmm, I don't agree. I can feel a difference, and yes the shaft will have something to do with the "feel", but both sets were shafted with DG S300 shafts. I don't know about head design, but what I DO know is that they felt a little different on the hit.

I've done lots of sports and many of them require a good sense of feel to become good. Skiing comes to mind and I did that for 40+ years. Windsurfing is another sport where feel becomes very important.