Tips on chips/flops shots from varied lies

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

The biggest weakness in my game (it's full of weaknesses, but this one costs me the most strokes) is wedge shots from 5-20 yards away from the green. My 3rd shot on a par 4, if I hit an okay tee shot, is usually from this position, since I'm okay but not extremely accurate with my short-mid irons.

So the big problem, it seems to me, is the lies. I chip okay from the fairway, or from very close to the green where I only need a few feet of carry. But a 5-20 yard shot from around the green is mostly from the rough (it's only fairway if I'm right in front), and I struggle badly to catch the ball consistently with the middle of the club face, without catching too much grass first.

I hit a lot of these shots thin and end up with low shots that have far too much speed. I also hit a lot of them too deep under the ball (if it's sitting up in the grass) and end up way short. I also hit a lot of them fat, where the club bounces hard into the ground and only knocks the ball a very short way. And I also hit a lot of them with the right part of the face, but catch too much grass first and the club doesn't have nearly enough speed left when it hits the ball, leaving me way short.

What I'd really like is to be able to catch the ball first, near the center of the face every time. Not every chip will be perfect; some will be pulled, some pushed, some under-hit, some over-hit. But if they all caught the ball first and hit with the right part of the clubface, than I think I could drop 7-8 strokes off my average round, and even more on the days where I'm chipping especially badly.

Does anyone have any tips, either on techniques or on practice methods, for how to improve this area of my game? All ideas are appreciated. Thanks.

-Andrew

[Zeph]

Ok, some tips:

1: Focus on hitting down on the ball. Whatever you do, do not try to lift the ball. You'll hit it thin or fat most of the time.
2: Move the ball back in your stance, maybe further back than the middle.
3: Take a short, steady and calm backswing. Once you get this down, you'll notice that you don't need much of a backswing to get the ball flying.
4: Don't try to lift the ball. I say this again because it's the no.1 problem. You may not try to lift it, but your body can do it anyways.
5: Get your weight on the front foot through the entire swing.
6: Don't hesitate or hold back at impact. Always follow through.
7: Practice, practice, practice. To get the confident feeling you have to do this over and over again, not only on the course.

I'm very good on those shots, probably the best part of my game. Says more about the rest of my game, but OK. What helped me the most was getting the ball back, front foot pressure, hit down on the ball and follow through. If you never hit these shots good, you have no idea how long it'll be. Practice with 3 different lengths on your backswing. Don't speed up the club to get it longer, keep the same rhythm and tempo, let the length of your backswing decide how far you'll go. Don't be afraid of hitting it solid down, if you first get the feeling of hitting it right, it's much easier to let you really get down on the ball. It'll pop out high and land soft. When you always hit it thin or fat, you'll never get used to how you're supposed to hit, that will cause you to hesitate during the downswing and ruin the shot.

At first I'd encourage you to only hit the shots with a square clubface, opening it up and hitting a flop is even harder, don't make it too hard on yourself at this stage. That is something you can experiment with once you've got the feeling of hitting those shots down. Every time you are on the practice green, try these shots. Even try them at home if you can. You don't need much distance, but practice is very useful. Until you hit it right consistently, you'll be uncertain and hit them bad. I know, I've been in the exactly same place. I can't say I hit them perfect all the time now either, but I know how I set it up, I know where to hit the ball and I know that I can hit it pretty hard without the ball flying off the green. With a thin or fat shot, it'll be short or way too long, but that's a risk you have to take with these shots. As long as you get solid impact on the way down, you'll hit it much better, and it will travel high. You can also try holding your arms a bit forward of the ball to help hitting down on it. It's just a longer chip shot really, but harder to master because of the big angle on your club and the speed.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

Ok, some tips:

Great tips. Another related question: for these 5-20 yard chips, particularly from the rough, what degree of loft do you like to use? I usually use my 58* wedge, since my only other wedge is a pitching wedge. However, hopefully soon I'll be buying some new clubs and I'll have a 54* and 49* to choose from in there too.

-Andrew

[case31]

Zeph is absolutely right. One thing I would add is that when you have learned the proper setup, make sure you do not break your wrists...treat the swing like a putt. I'm guessing that is one of the things you are doing now and is one of the causes for your errant shots because:
a) it's difficult to determine distance now that you've taken your arms back and uncocked your wrists...which leads to...
b) you now have to get them back to square at impact in order to hit it down your line.

It is much easier to make a consistent swing with your big muscles (shoulders) than your smaller ones. I have really focused on this technique this year, and the positive results were immediate. I was able to consistently guage how hard to swing for each shot, and I was hitting down my line almost every time.
Another tip is to pick a spot right behind the ball and make that your "impact point". Do this with your practice swings. When you get to the point where you see the club get that impact point, you know where the ball should be at address.

[case31]

Great tips. Another related question: for these 5-20 yard chips, particularly from the rough, what degree of loft do you like to use? I usually use my 58* wedge, since my only other wedge is a pitching wedge. However, hopefully soon I'll be buying some new clubs and I'll have a 54* and 49* to choose from in there too.

That depends. Every shot is different. You have to look more at your strategy. For example: I have a 52, a 56, and a 60. If the ball is sitting down, I will lean towards the 52 or PW. If the ball is sitting up and I don't have a lot of green to work with, I'll hit the 60.

Remember, your goal first-and-foremost is just to get the ball on the green...anywhere. If you miss the green on your approach and have to chip on, put yourself in position to give yourself a chance at par, with bogey being the worst-case scenario. If you get cute with a chip and mishit it, leave it short, whatever, now you bring double-bogey or worse into play.

[ks8829]

easy tips for chipping

1) feet apart but less than shoulder width
2) feet slightly open stance
3) ball located center or back of your stance
4) weight on your front foot
5) swing with your shoulder and keep your hands quiet
6) practice then and you will make solid contact with your chipping

[C 6 System]

Using a putting like stroke from thick rough is pretty tough, as you will not get consistent distance on your shots due to the grass grabbing a lot of the club and the shaft. But definitely from the fairway from 20 and in, use that putting stroke with the pitching wedge and a short backswing. Should provide immediate results.

Thinking positively would also help your game a lot. You've probably pegged this as the weakest, or one of the weakest areas of your game like we all do with something. It's important to have good technique, but if you can step up to that shot with a target on the green picked out and the confidence to tell yourself you're going to hit that spot, it will work wonders. You hear a lot of people say that having a clear mind and thinking about nothing works well. But I think if you can stand over that ball and, not only tell yourself, but feel that you know where it is going, you will see an immediate impact in your game.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

Using a putting like stroke from thick rough is pretty tough, as you will not get consistent distance on your shots due to the grass grabbing a lot of the club and the shaft.

So what do you change to prevent the rough from messing up your shot? What do you differently between when the ball is sitting up or when it's sitting down?

-Andrew

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

Remember, your goal first-and-foremost is just to get the ball on the green...anywhere. If you miss the green on your approach and have to chip on, put yourself in position to give yourself a

Good point. I never really thought of it that way.

Unfortunately, bogey is definitely not the worst case scenario with me if I have a very long par putt, but I understand what you meant. And I also understand that lag putting is another area I need to put in some hard work on, so that I can consider a two-putt to be a worst case scenario. -Andrew

[Trav]

Thinking positively would also help your game a lot. You've probably pegged this as the weakest, or one of the weakest areas of your game like we all do with something. It's important to have good technique, but if you can step up to that shot with a target on the green picked out and the confidence to tell yourself you're going to hit that spot, it will work wonders. You hear a lot of people say that having a clear mind and thinking about nothing works well. But I think if you can stand over that ball and, not only tell yourself, but feel that you know where it is going, you will see an immediate impact in your game.

This is an important point and relates to the need to practice from lots of different lies and distances so you know how big a swing to take. When you're standing over the shot, it's easy to start thinking negatively due to lack of experience with how a ball will react from a particular shot and worrying the ball will go too short, too far, etc. But once you gain confidence from consistently repeating a shot in practice and knowing how the ball will act, the negative thoughts dissipate.

What I'm saying is - if you look at a 20 yard shot as simply repeating a shot you have practiced enough to know how it turns out, it's easy to focus on simply repeating the shot technique and not worry over the shot outcome.

[Dub]

Great post, Zeph....very well stated.


Sometimes I'll find myself very close to the green but with a hazard or bunker to carry...just a few yards to the pin, though. These shots used to test me to no end.

I try to set up and let my arms simply fall into the swing...accelerating through...not starting fast....just letting gravity begin my arms dropping and then accelerating through.

With my 58 degree LW, this shot pops up nicely and drops down shortly...very little run...maybe a yard or so. Great shot for those 15-20 yard flops.


You must make a confident pass through the ball, though. A tenative stroke will increase the possibility of either a bladed shot or a week dip into the hazard/bunker.

[C 6 System]

So what do you change to prevent the rough from messing up your shot? What do you differently between when the ball is sitting up or when it's sitting down?

When in the rough and about 20 yards from the green you're going to need lag and wrist cock in your swing. Using a bump and run type swing from the rough results in very inconsistant results.

The steeper you come down on the ball the less grass snags your clubface which will prove to be more of a consistant shot. Open the club face up a hair and have a slightly open stance. Think of it more like a bunker shot than a pitch shot. And the most important thing is accelerating through the ball.

[case31]

You must make a confident pass through the ball, though. A tenative stroke will increase the possibility of either a bladed shot or a week dip into the hazard/bunker.

Exactly. When I was working on this earlier in the season, I would get caught either taking a long backswing and decelerating on the follow-through or a short backswing and getting fast and breaking my wrists on the finish. It is a matter of trusting the swing.

As I mentioned earlier, your strategy is key here. If you are faced with a shot that has a twist (i.e. awkward stance, buried lie, no green to work with, green running away from you), focus on getting ball on the green and take your chances making what might be a long putt. Hopefully the worst thing that happens is you get on and two-putt (hopefully, again...just for bogey). I see too many high handicappers try to hit a fancy Phil Mickelson flop shot that they never practice in hopes of getting the ball in tap-in range, mishit it, and end up with double or worse. Then they wonder why they don't score well.

[brandon_mcg]

i use this drill a lot if i feel i'm breaking my wrist:
http://www.golfhelp.com/golf-tips/Extended_Club.html

for chips that i only need 3-4 feet of ball flight i tend to use my 64* wedge

[wkdspd]

all the examples so far have been dead-on, but here's another approach to that shot you may not have considered:

that 5-20 yd chip shot will usually include at least half of that distance being green. why not use a 6i or 7i and bump it up, landing just past the fringe or further and rolling to the hole? the steeper face angle takes a lot of the snag out of the lie, allowing a nice smooth up and down with a clean lie.

I personally ditched a never-used fairway wood (5w) to make room for a cut-down 6i that I use just for this shot, and find myself holing 2-3 of these shots a round either for a great birdie or a much-needed par-save.

just a thought

[mikelz]

Heres an obscure one from Phil Rodgers: The Rule of 12

It's a good starting point for playing the pitch-and-run.
Take the number of the club and subtract it from 12.
(the sand wedge is your 11 iron).

The answer is how far your shot will roll in relation to how far it flew.

Example:
You are 80 feet from the hole with no obstacles.
You select a 9 iron.
12-9=3
Fly the ball 20 feet and it will roll the other 60.

The point:
Pick the ratio that will let you land it in a level spot and make that spot your target.

Note:
This applies to a straight-up address and no de-lofting by moving the ball back in your stance.

[iacas]

It's a good starting point for playing the pitch-and-run.

Wow, that rule might only apply to people who can't apply any sort of spin to the ball, or those who play only on rock-hard muni greens, or both. So with a sand wedge the ball will roll as far as it flies? What about a ball on the fairway versus in the greenside rough?

Suffice to say I think you're better off trusting feel than relying on a formula that, to me, seems VERY far from the truth. My tip? Practice. Take a wedge (Stan Utley prefers you use one wedge for almost all greenside shots), take some balls, put them in various places, and see what happens. Develop your feel.

[mikelz]

Wow, that rule might only apply to people who can't apply any sort of spin to the ball, or those who play only on rock-hard muni greens, or both. So with a sand wedge the ball will roll as far as it flies? What about a ball on the fairway versus in the greenside rough?

I would think that a person asking for instructions on how to pitch and chip is a little short in feel and ball spin.

The operative words were "starting point" and the example is 80 feet. The other operative words were "no intervening obstructions". I'm done with this one. No, I'm not done yet. Was Stan Utley ever Jack Nicklaus' short-game coach?