Tips on chips/flops shots from varied lies

[iacas]

I would think that a person asking for instructions on how to pitch and chip is a little short in feel and ball spin.

Gee, seems to me the original post talked about ball contact, not feel and ball spin. If you're going to say "you didn't read the OP" then it's fair to say the same of your response.

So, turns out we're both guilty of not reading the OP. Good for you.

The operative words were "starting point" and the example is 80 feet.

And he talked about chips of 5-20 yards. That's not 80 feet.

Was Stan Utley ever Jack Nicklaus' short-game coach?

Yeah, because that's relevant how? Oh, right, it's not - not one bit. Jack's short game was pretty sucky. I hardly think you want to throw his short game up as an example of anything.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

I would think that a person asking for instructions on how to pitch and chip is a little short in feel and ball spin.

And I can verify that I am short on both feel and ball spin.

I tend to shy away from chipping with an iron, because I have even less feel for how hot the ball will come off the face than I do with my sand wedge. The exception is when I'm very near the green, and only need 5-6 feet of carry or less. In these cases I can use an iron and a putting stroke, with acceptably consistent results.

Take a wedge (Stan Utley prefers you use one wedge for almost all greenside shots), take some balls, put them in various places, and see what happens. Develop your feel.

Developing my feel is certainly something I need to do, and something I'm sure will happen through practice no matter what sort of technique I adopt. A question about Utley's method: does he suggest one wedge regardless of lie? If I were only going to use one, what loft do you expect is best for the widest variety of shots? More of a lob wedge, 58-60*, or more of a sand wedge, 52-56*?

-Andrew

[Zeph]

That rule is not something I would recommend. There are too many depending factors. Undulation on the green for once, backsping, how fast the green is. On those short chips with an iron, you're best off just practicing. When you normally would use PW or wedge, try 8i or 9i. When practicing, see how far back you can go with an 8i before it doesn't carry to the green anymore. Do the same with other irons.

The undulation of the green is just as important factor as the length to the hole. A little downhill and you'll hit it too far, uphill and it'll land short. When it's very undulated and hard to get close, maybe a high lofted wedge to just chip it to within 3ft of the flag.

[Righty to Lefty]

Ok, some tips:

[QUOTE=Zeph;216501]Ok, some tips:

At first I'd encourage you to only hit the shots with a square clubface, opening it up and hitting a flop is even harder, don't make it too hard on yourself at this stage.QUOTE] I thought that this was well stated but I had been strugglin with those shot from inside 20 yards that get up high and land soft and this was the way that I finally got them down and it is starting to give me good birdie putts I agreed with most all of what you said but I didn't agree with a few of your points and I'll explain why: 1. Open your stance roughly 45 degrees open to your target. 2. Point the clubface at the target, then take your grip . You have to get over the phobia of opening the clubface because you are keeping yourself from using especially the Vokey's and other true wedges in that class to it's full potential. ( I found that I couldn't ever get the high trajectory soft landing shot that I wanted from a square clubface no matter how hard I tried it always came off medium to low and rolled out more than I wanted) 3. Distribute your weight about 65% forward/ 35% back and play the ball similar to where you would for a bunker shot. 4. Take some practice swings and if you have to grip down on the club so that it barely brushes the top of the grass or if in the rough so that the club can get down to the level of the ball. Also notice how Vokey's and such, when the face is open how they are actually square to the target at impact on a normal swing. The face is pretty closed if you don't open the face and that creates low shots. Sergio grips down a ton when he's playin out of the rough and this helps eliminated the fat shot and helps you come into the ball at a steeper angle which helps it get up quickly. 5. Use a light grip pressure (2 on a scale of 10 because this keeps your wrists from locking up and helps you release the club which is a must because if you don't you will hit a shank. Grip pressure is the one thing that no one says anything about but if your grip pressure is firm it is nearly impossible to get a high trajectory that lands soft in such a short distance) 6. SWING TO A TARGET PARALLEL TO THE LINE OF YOUR FEET TO AT LEAST A 3/4 TO FULL FOLLOW THROUGH WITH AS LITTLE TENSION AS YOU CAN ( Notice the target for distance control but before you look back down to the ball shift your thoughts to and imaginary target which is in line with your feet because that is what you are going to swing to. The ball will go to the where the club face is pointed similar to a bunker shot. DO NOT OPEN YOUR STANCE AND THEN SWING TO THE TARGET OR YOU WILL HIT A SHANK!! If you take a divot it should point right or left of the target depending on whether you are right or left handed. You have to learn to trust that if you swing down the line of your feet that you are going to hit the ball at the target. You have to convice yourself that you are hitting a straight shot at a target to the right or left of the actual ball flight line depending on whether you are right or left handed. Try not to look at the clubface being open and focus on your imaginary target. I've spent many hours on this was the way to get myself in position to execute in and ingrain the FEEL of it. It isn't a scary shot as long and you try not to notice the clubface being open with used to create the tendancy for me to swing to the target and hit shanks. Light grip pressure is actually the most effective at getting the ball to come cleanly out of the rough also and buried bunker lies around the greens. This technique has done wonders for my bunker game also because I used to sit and watch our club pro hit bunker shots and wonder why my shots didn't land soft like that. Well I was gripping the club to tightly and not choking down on the club enough and that combo equals taking too much sand and barely getting ball out of the bunker if at all. I use a 64 degree for a fairway flop so i had to get over looking down over it when it is open pretty quickly but I found that sand wedge and up work best from the rough depending on how far you are from the green. Flop shots are not hard you just have to get yourself setup and thinkin in a way that makes you confident to execute the shot.

[Zeph]

There are no rules here. I play around with stance, aiming and clubface all the time. I often angle my feet to the left and club straight at. Making it a kind of long chip shot. It all depends on how hard and far you're going to hit it.

In general, if you aim at the target with the club, aim parallell with your feet. If you open the clubface, open your stance. This is not some rule, but when hitting it hard and fast, it's adviced. As I said, I've spent much time experimenting with these shots and as long as I keep the swing short and stable, I can modify my stance and clubface any way I want to. I agree with you on a general idea, but I don't think it's wrong to experiment and try other methods.

DO NOT OPEN YOUR STANCE AND THEN SWING TO THE TARGET OR YOU WILL HIT A SHANK!!

This is no fact. As I said, I hit these kind of shots all the time, shanking it is not a problem for me.

Practice is the only way to get confident with these shots, then you can experiment yourself with aiming, ball position, swing tempo, length of backswing etc. It's important to get so confident that you don't hesitate during the downswing, that'll ruin it for sure. It doesn't take that fast a swing to pop the ball out nicely. I never take full shots with my wedges, it's too big a risk of not hitting the ball perfectly, which you really have to do, with those clubface angles. Since you don't need all that speed, it's easier to manipulate the clubface, hands, etc in case you've got a bad lie or bad place to stand.

[michaeljames92]

Well I will add my two cents to this thread. My choosing of club is determined by lie, length of pitch/chip, slope of green, obstacles etc. If I am just off the green and am left with a short chip, I usually take my 56 and just chip it. I don't get much spin with my wedges and can run them quite easily. However if it is a long green i will use something less lofted such as a 9 iron/8 iron so I can get quite a lot of run almost like a putt. For shots over bunkers and deeper rough with not much green i'll use my most lofted club so I can stop it quicker. So my choice of club really just depends on conditions and the situation at hand.
That is just my 2 cents

[Armonster20]

A question about Utley's method: does he suggest one wedge regardless of lie? If I were only going to use one, what loft do you expect is best for the widest variety of shots? More of a lob wedge, 58-60*, or more of a sand wedge, 52-56*?

I just got his book recently (after reading great reviews on this forum) and went out and bought the exact wedge that Utley says he uses: spin milled Vokey, 58* with 12* bounce (i think that's the bounce - in any case it's the higher bounce option).

I find his technique much more consistent than the whole "move the ball back and open your stance" method. The added benefit is that his technique is like a mini version of your regular swing, which makes it easier for me to get the right feel for it. I'm a high handicapper, and I feel like my short game is probably the best part of game (not that it's saying a whole lot). But if I were you, I'd mosey on over to the book section of the forum and read what people have to say about his book.

[dragonflyin]

I'll chime in with my two cents as well. I absolutely love chipping because I believe it's the most creative part of the game. There are so many ways getting the ball up and down from 10-75 yards that it both makes it fun, but also frustrating to develop (since there are such drastically different approaches).

If I had to start over, and learn to chip again, I would work on these items in the following order.

1. Get the proper setup and swing for a chip. Many of the specifics have already been mentioned so I won't waste your time.

2. Developing feel. The key for me here is SOFT HANDS. This has two benefits. Chipping is closer to putting than a full shot. Mainly because you have to "feel" how hard to hit it. To develop feel, I'd just start with one club, same ball type. Let's say a 56 degree wedge. Chip this club from every situation you can, rough, fairway, tight lies, etc. Get an understanding of how the club/ball reacts from each lie. How far it flys, how much it bites, how much it rolls, and most importantly, how it felt. Having soft hands will give you the greatest amount of feedback. It is this feedback that will hopefully be ingrained in your brain. When you are given a similar shot in the future, your brain will be able to search the wealth of resources stored in it. The second benefit of soft hands is that it guarantees you to hit through the shot. Problem I see many people having is that they take a fast and long swing, but deaccelerate into the ball. Terrible. If you had soft hands, it'll be much harder to stop the club, it really promotes a smooth and through swing.

3. Expand these take-aways to other wedges/short irons. Once you've mastered these basics, try a 60 degree wedge. Try bumping with a 9 iron. Surprising you'd be able to incorporate a lot of what's mentioned above across all of your shots.

Good luck,
David

[Chief Broom]

My greenside and short approaches follow a pretty set routine. Simplicty is the key for me. Generally speaking I use my sandwedge to pitch. This is an abreviated swing where I let my wrists break both in the backswing and in the follow though where the distance I need to carry dictates how much of a swing I take. My stance is closer than for a full short iron swing. This routine covers my approaches from about 50yds and in. Pitching like this gives me a high soft shot that doesn't run much after it sets down. I pitch if I need to carry any distance to the green (because of a bunker, rough, etc.). I chip using my pitching wedge. My set up and routine are essentially the same as putting, my wrists don't break, but I do stand with my feet pretty close together and address the ball standing up straighter than when putting. I chip when I need the ball to run a lot farther than it travels in the air. Occasionally I'll play a similar bump and run shot from farther away and when that is the case I'll use longer clubs depending upon how far I want the ball to travel. Around the green though I stick with using the SW and PW for pitching and chipping respectively. For me making this process as simple and standardized as possible helps me to develop consistancy and feel secure in what I can expect from either shot under pretty much any conditions. While changing lie conditions do make a big difference in how the shot will perform and turn out I've found that keeping my shot selection/routine simple works best for me. I really don't play flop shots. I can chip with my SW but because of the extra loft those chips won't run very far. Sometimes because of that I will chip with my SW, but usually I want my chips to run farther than the SW will let me comfortably do with any given swing distance.

[clubhousehero]

Hi everyone. This is my first post here and this thread pushed me to join because i just wanted to share my 2 cents.

What has greatly imporved my short game is just using 1 wedge (pw) for almost all my pithches and chip shots. Before i had problems trying to figure out how far the ball would flw and/or run when i was switching between my pw and sw. by just using my pw, i have gotten a much better idea of how the ball will react and can now get the ball close to the pin alot more consistantly than before. I have also eliminated bad shots this way. Once i feel like i have mastered the pw i will more over to the sw again and try and master that. right now i'm trying to learn one wedge at a time.

However, i do sometimes break out the sw if i have to fly a small tree or bunker, but if there is no hazard in the way, i'm going with the pw 99% of the time.