Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

[Vinsk]

50 minutes ago, measureoffsetinnm said:

@iacas That post about Jack's luck in getting handed majors by other players is interesting. I do think Tiger has benefited from that at times as well. The 2005 Masters jumps to mind.

Could you please quote the post you’re referring to? 

[saevel25]

47 minutes ago, measureoffsetinnm said:

@iacas That post about Jack's luck in getting handed majors by other players is interesting. I do think Tiger has benefited from that at times as well. The 2005 Masters jumps to mind.

Not sure I agree with the 2005 Masters...

DeMarco went birdie-birdie on hole 14 and 15 to get it to within one. Then Tiger chips in on 16 to extend to two. Then Tiger goes bogey bogey to fall to a playoff. 

I am not sure I would count Tiger being handed a major when a playoff is involved. DeMarco pars number 18 in the playoff and Tiger makes a 15-FT birdie putt. Not sure how this could be Tiger being handed a major. 

 

[measureoffsetinnm]

9 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Could you please quote the post you’re referring to? 

Sorry it was the link compilation post.

9 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Not sure I agree with the 2005 Masters...

DeMarco went birdie-birdie on hole 14 and 15 to get it to within one. Then Tiger chips in on 16 to extend to two. Then Tiger goes bogey bogey to fall to a playoff. 

I am not sure I would count Tiger being handed a major when a playoff is involved. DeMarco pars number 18 in the playoff and Tiger makes a 15-FT birdie putt. Not sure how this could be Tiger being handed a major. 

 

It is not as glaring as someone missing a 2 footer but DiMarco threw away at least four or five very makeable birdie putts that obviously would have made things much different. Tiger still felt shaky rather than supremely dominant and while watching it got the sense DiMarco lost it just as much as he won it.

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, measureoffsetinnm said:

It is not as glaring as someone missing a 2 footer but DiMarco threw away at least four or five very makeable birdie putts that obviously would have made things much different.

Define very makable? 

2 minutes ago, measureoffsetinnm said:

Tiger still felt shaky rather than supremely dominant and while watching it got the sense DiMarco lost it just as much as he won it.

Still not sure about that. He stuck around by not making a mistake and Tiger made two bogeys. That isn't giving away a tournament. Pars are really good on holes #17 and #18 at Augusta. After hole #15, the last 3 holes are not birdie holes. You got to make your birdies from holes 11 through 15. 

[onthehunt526]

10 hours ago, measureoffsetinnm said:

@iacas That post about Jack's luck in getting handed majors by other players is interesting. I do think Tiger has benefited from that at times as well. The 2005 Masters jumps to mind.

Well maybe the 2005 Masters, a little... he didn’t get handed a single one of the four majors in the Tiger Slam... Bob May played probably the best golf of his life that week... and Tiger had to shoot 31 on the back on Sunday to get into the playoff, (as did Bob May).

[Vinsk]

Faldo is the supreme recipient of profound luck when it comes to The Masters. To be handed 2 Masters wins is quite amazing. 

[onthehunt526]

44 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Define very makable? 

Still not sure about that. He stuck around by not making a mistake and Tiger made two bogeys. That isn't giving away a tournament. Pars are really good on holes #17 and #18 at Augusta. After hole #15, the last 3 holes are not birdie holes. You got to make your birdies from holes 11 through 15. 

Depends on the pin on #16, if it’s left of the big slope, it can be birdied, if it’s up top it can be difficult... It’s not a “birdie” hole, but with a well-executed tee shot you can certainly make 2.

17 and 18... you don’t make a TON of 6s on but you will probably make more 5s than 3s over a career. IMO, Tiger just doesn’t like the look of the tee shot at the 18th... he in general has hit some squirrelly drives on 18... 17, when Ike’s tree was there he couldn’t make himself hit the squeeze fade off of Ike’s tree... so he’d either pull it over by the 7th green, or end up in the trees between 15 and 17 like he did in 2005.

[saevel25]

Just watched a bit of 2005, and DeMarco talked about how he just misread some of the birdie putts. 

Now, its hard to say he should have made putts when you misread them. If you read it perfectly, then mishit the putt or misjudge the distance then maybe. When you hit your line, hit your speed, you can't really complain about missing a putt. 

He did have some good looks and didn't make them, but still made enough birdies to get into a playoff. So, again, I don't think he crumbled. 

[Vinsk]

It’s really a moot point. Even if one could argue strongly that Tiger got lucky in a few wins…..does that mean anything really? Who could ever say Tiger was overrated? Tiger is the GOAT. I don’t by any means discredit Faldo’s career in general. But the fact is his two, TWO, Masters wins were so ridiculously gifted it matters as he only won three total.

[measureoffsetinnm]

Some of DiMarco's missed putts were pretty timid efforts so that is why I described it as giving them away. He can say he misread them and that is true for some but others really were just poorly struck. It is not to say DiMarco handed the green jacket to Tiger on a silver platter but Tiger was very fortunate that DiMarco did not really capitalize on the chances he was giving himself.

That said I agree it does not really take away from the case for Tiger's greatness. The post iacas linked to came off rather biased in tone so I more pointed this out to acknowledge that every Tiger victory was not a controlled cruise either. I think it just goes to show that winning a major is extremely difficult and even the greatest need some bounces to go their way sometimes. It is like that with many sports when played at such an elite level.

Edited May 9, 2021 by measureoffsetinnm

[saevel25]

11 hours ago, measureoffsetinnm said:

Some of DiMarco's missed putts were pretty timid efforts so that is why I described it as giving them away. He can say he misread them and that is true for some but others really were just poorly struck.

Prove it. Do you have video of his putting up close to analyze that he miss hit the putts? 
 

[Vinsk]

15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Prove it. Do you have video of his putting up close to analyze that he miss hit the putts? 
 

44:53…..DiMarco disagrees with @measureoffsetinnm

[measureoffsetinnm]

I don't want to argue too much with the man himself but also don't really want to think Lanny Wadkins and my own eyes were deceiving me.

[Vinsk]

18 hours ago, measureoffsetinnm said:

I don't want to argue too much with the man himself but also don't really want to think Lanny Wadkins and my own eyes were deceiving me.

Well…it happens all the time. So many people assume Jordan Spieth was a killer on the putting greens…..not really. He actually putted better in 2019 than in 2015. Many would say that’s not what they saw…

[saevel25]

17 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Well…it happens all the time. So many people assume Jordan Spieth was a killer on the putting greens…..not really. He actually putted better in 2019 than in 2015. Many would say that’s not what they saw…

Jordan has always been one of the really good putters from like 20+ FT. 

He struggles inside of 10-Ft. A lot of his strokes gained putting is making bombs. Which is nice, but he does leave a few strokes on the course when you consider how often he might have a putt inside of 10-FT. 

Yea, I think people inflate his putting when he was on that tear. 

[measureoffsetinnm]

3 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Jordan has always been one of the really good putters from like 20+ FT. 

He struggles inside of 10-Ft. A lot of his strokes gained putting is making bombs. Which is nice, but he does leave a few strokes on the course when you consider how often he might have a putt inside of 10-FT.

Yea, I think people inflate his putting when he was on that tear. 

For anyone who doubts that I think you could probably just point them to this year's Masters.

[Zeph]

Someone find footage of every major Jack won to analyze the putts his competitors made…

Come on…this is silly. Chris didn’t play well enough to win, but one more putt was all he needed, or one missed by Tiger. And he played four under, while Tiger played one under. It was very close and even went to a playoff. Tiger wasn’t handed anything. Maybe Chris mishit a few putts, but every golfer do, Tiger included. It’s not like Chris wanted to lose.

[jxdama]

I vote for  Jack