Male Scratch Golfer on the LPGA Tour

[GHIN0011458]

Well I entered in all of my tournament scores at the end of the season just to see what it was and my TOURNAMENT handicap for the year is 0.5. So I need to lose 2.5 strokes and my nuts and I could get out there and compete.

[phan52]

Our club champion is currently a +.03 so I think he qualifies as a scratch golfer and he has all the skills. He has qualified twice for the US Mid-Am. Long and pretty straight off the tee, gobbles up par 5's, has a solid iron game, has an excellent touch around the greens and is a very good putter. Our women's club champion is a +2.2 (obviously on a shorter and differently rated layout) and recently qualified for status on the Symetra Tour. She is a long way from the LPGA Tour but getting that status is still pretty impressive, IMO. I've played a lot with both and if she can get status on the Symetra Tour I have to believe that our male club champion would easily qualify for a card on the LPGA Tour.

[GHIN0011458]

Our club champion is currently a +.03 so I think he qualifies as a scratch golfer and he has all the skills. He has qualified twice for the US Mid-Am. Long and pretty straight off the tee, gobbles up par 5's, has a solid iron game, has an excellent touch around the greens and is a very good putter. Our women's club champion is a +2.2 (obviously on a shorter and differently rated layout) and recently qualified for status on the Symetra Tour. She is a long way from the LPGA Tour but getting that status is still pretty impressive, IMO. I've played a lot with both and if she can get status on the Symetra Tour I have to believe that our male club champion would easily qualify for a card on the LPGA Tour.

I am comparing a Men's +2 to an LPGA not a Women's +2 to an LPGA if that makes sense I am not quite sure if I am communicating that. I think a Men's +2 would crush a Women's +2 but is it all relative?

[golf-noob-bruce]

These seem like pretty reasonable things to do. Btw, I have met one high school lady golfer in my home town who can easily beat a male scratch golfer, and I doubt she's the only one. The talent is out there, but they don't look like super models.

Um...

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Our club champion is currently a +.03 so I think he qualifies as a scratch golfer and he has all the skills. He has qualified twice for the US Mid-Am. Long and pretty straight off the tee, gobbles up par 5's, has a solid iron game, has an excellent touch around the greens and is a very good putter. Our women's club champion is a +2.2 (obviously on a shorter and differently rated layout) and recently qualified for status on the Symetra Tour. She is a long way from the LPGA Tour but getting that status is still pretty impressive, IMO. I've played a lot with both and if she can get status on the Symetra Tour I have to believe that our male club champion would easily qualify for a card on the LPGA Tour.

Originally Posted by GHIN0011458

I am comparing a Men's +2 to an LPGA not a Women's +2 to an LPGA if that makes sense I am not quite sure if I am communicating that. I think a Men's +2 would crush a Women's +2 but is it all relative?

I wasn't commenting on your post at all. I was comparing two players with whom I am familiar, and the male scratch golfer has much more game than the Symetra qualifier.

[rkim291968]

I wasn't commenting on your post at all. I was comparing two players with whom I am familiar, and the male scratch golfer has much more game than the Symetra qualifier.

There is a huge disparity even among LPGA players, and more in Symetra tour.   I.e, a Symetra qualifier can't really be compared against s scratch player which was what one of the posters were comparing the top LPGA players against.

[acerimusdux]

Except I'm not sure they play the true women's tees, I think they play a melding of the different tees, but I do think that a really good scratch golfer would hold their own on the LPGA tour.  At the current LPGA tournament in Thailand, even par would be good enough Tied for 42, and most of the ladies driving average is 250-ish, some lower a couple high.  but a good scratch golfer I think would probably be 30+ yards further.  The course in Thailand they are playing is 6,500 Yds.

So that corresponds to the Blue tees.  I would think a good scratch player would do well.  not saying they would win every tournament, but I'm guessing they would do for the most part pretty well.

Yes, but that scorecard also says (lower right) the course rating for those blue tees is 74.1 So by definition, our scratch golfer shoots about a 74 there about one round in five. So where do you think he is today after two rounds? Using Dave's formula of CR+1 for each round, he's at 150, tied for 66th in a field of 70, a full 20 strokes behind leader Stacy Lewis.

It does seem a scratch golfer could make the LPGA tour and compete some, but I still think it's going to be a struggle for him to keep that card. If you aren't in the top 100 on the money list, it's tough. There are spots for those in the 101-125 range, but at that point on the priority list you are also behind the top 20 from Q school, the top 10 from the Symetra tour, and qualifyers based on career earnings and wins.  So basically 150+ range on the priority list.

I think the numbers generally suggest the top LPGA ladies are in the +2 to +3 range (meaning if they had men's handicaps), so our scratch golfer isn't one of the top players. I think the question is more whether or not he can at least get comfortably into the 80-100 range where he at least has a fair chance to keep that card. I think that might be debatable.

[rkim291968]

BTW, there is no such thing as good scratch golfer as opposed to a bad one.   Scratch golfer has a narrow definition of carrying HI of near 0.   So statement like a "good" scratch golfer can do such  and such doesn't make sense to me.  A scratch golfer can average 300 or 220 drives but at the end of the day, I would expect them to score similar under LPGA playing condition.

[GHIN0011458]

So it looks like it is pretty much in lines with what I was thinking off the top of my head. I just know what a tough 6,600 yard course is like and they are still getting fairly under par which would put some of our +2's around here in the same lines with them. @Vinsk I think you underestimate some things in regards to their play.

[Lihu]

Well I entered in all of my tournament scores at the end of the season just to see what it was and my TOURNAMENT handicap for the year is 0.5. So I need to lose 2.5 strokes and my nuts and I could get out there and compete.

Plus, you'd have to wear those pink skirts, that's the deal breaker, right?

[Vinsk]

@GHIN0011458 yeah...you're probably right. I just have watched so much more LPGA than ever before of late and I get irked when the announcers (Judy Rankin particularly) make comparisons with the men. I don't think they come close. Annika proved that years ago. I must admit that in previous posts I think I was referring to PGA tour players rather than local yokal scratch golfers and for that...my mistake. I've played with many young college and recreational scratch golfers who were just awesome ball strikers and playing with these guys I have a hard time imagining them struggling on a LPGA course from the ladies tees. I have to agree with Iacas on not being too impressed with their short games however. There is no question that they simply make the greens and pin placement easier than they do with the men. And if chipping and putting don't rely on testosterone, then why do they do this? Why can't the women play shorter tees than the men...BUT ALL ELSE EQUAL. That's my conundrum I guess.

[ay33660]

I apologize if this has already been posted. I have not read thru all 14 pages of replies.

I would think that someone like Jeff Knox would perform just fine on the LPGA tour.

He is the official "marker" for the Masters and has played with Jim Furyk, Craig Stadler, Sergio Garcia, Bubba Watson, Keegan Bradley, Miguel Jimenez, and most recently Rory McIlroy (who he beat by 1 stroke).

The articles below have stated that he has a winning average of greater than 50% against the pros.

Now he doesn't have the pressure of trying to win for a living and he is usually paired with the last golfer to make the cut but still he is playing against PGA pros on their tee box.

Obviously he does not wilt under the pressure of playing in front of a large crowd as I expect that the crowds he faced while playing with Bubba or Rory on the Masters weekend would be larger than any faced by LPGA players.

He has competed at various amateur tournaments at state levels so playing well at different courses other than his home course of Augusta National is not an issue.

Augusta National is a reasonably hard course so he doesn't have an inflated handicap.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/apr/14/the-masters-jeff-knox

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-devil-ball-golf/meet-jeff-knox--the-guy-with-the-greatest-job-in-golf--augusta-marker-155021216.html

http://www.augusta.com/masters/story/masters/jeff-knox-gets-call-augusta-national-bullpen

[Vinsk]

was looking at Kiawah Island and thier 6200 132 slope yard tee box had both mens and womans handicap index. 76.7 women and 70.9 mens. That would mean the woman would have to be a +6 to equal a scratch male. Their 7356 144 slope has a rating of 77.3 That is an extra 1000 yards and 12 degrees equals the same handicap. From 6800 138 it is a 73.5. I just have to imagine that for a woman that would be an 80+. based on the progression. Female golfer would have to play to a +8 to beat the male. I think you are underestimating a male scratch golfer. This was posted in another discussion I came across....interesting ..

[Lihu]

was looking at Kiawah Island and thier 6200 132 slope yard tee box had both mens and womans handicap index. 76.7 women and 70.9 mens. That would mean the woman would have to be a +6 to equal a scratch male. Their 7356 144 slope has a rating of 77.3 That is an extra 1000 yards and 12 degrees equals the same handicap. From 6800 138 it is a 73.5. I just have to imagine that for a woman that would be an 80+. based on the progression. Female golfer would have to play to a +8 to beat the male. I think you are underestimating a male scratch golfer. This was posted in another discussion I came across....interesting ..

There's an offset of 6 strokes on my home course as well, and that seems to indicate that a women +6 would be equal to a male scratch and not +8?

[DrvFrShow]

The difference is distance off the tee which affects every club in the bag. Faster SS can also put more spin on the ball for stopping on greens. I really don't see the point in this thread. Yes, men are stronger, they can hit the ball further, and with higher SS can stop the ball on faster greens much easier because of simple physics. If you can hit an approach shot with an 8 iron from further away, you'll be able to impart more backspin on the ball and it is more likely to stop than say with a hybrid. It's that simple. That's why the greens are maybe not stimped as high as they are for the men's tournaments. And does it really matter?

That's why the course ratings are higher for women from the same distance than for men.

I think some people have way too much invested in this for it to have gone on for 15 pages.

Also I really don't see any point in this thread.

[Pretzel]

Also I really don't see any point in this thread.

Speculation as to the level of competition on the LPGA tour is the reason.

Part of the reason, at least I would assume, that the LPGA tour is less competitive is just because athletic and gifted individuals are better off taking up other sports (or non-athletic endeavors) professionally. Women's golf pays diddly unless you're the best in the world.

[Vinsk]

@DrvFrShow Then you may politely leave. It's a discussion. Take your football and go home.

[DrvFrShow]

Speculation as to the level of competition on the LPGA tour is the reason.

Part of the reason, at least I would assume, that the LPGA tour is less competitive is just because athletic and gifted individuals are better off taking up other sports (or non-athletic endeavors) professionally. Women's golf pays diddly unless you're the best in the world.

This I totally agree. Women's golf doesn't pay much at all. You make most of your money from your endorsements, and still compared to men's golf the amount is a pittance. Those who play are not doing it for the money.

It's this way in all women's sports except for tennis.