Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
IGNORED

Male Scratch Golfer on the LPGA Tour


Note: This thread is 1491 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted

Well I entered in all of my tournament scores at the end of the season just to see what it was and my TOURNAMENT handicap for the year is 0.5. So I need to lose 2.5 strokes and my nuts and I could get out there and compete.

  • Upvote 1

Posted

Our club champion is currently a +.03 so I think he qualifies as a scratch golfer and he has all the skills. He has qualified twice for the US Mid-Am. Long and pretty straight off the tee, gobbles up par 5's, has a solid iron game, has an excellent touch around the greens and is a very good putter. Our women's club champion is a +2.2 (obviously on a shorter and differently rated layout) and recently qualified for status on the Symetra Tour. She is a long way from the LPGA Tour but getting that status is still pretty impressive, IMO. I've played a lot with both and if she can get status on the Symetra Tour I have to believe that our male club champion would easily qualify for a card on the LPGA Tour.

Bill M

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Our club champion is currently a +.03 so I think he qualifies as a scratch golfer and he has all the skills. He has qualified twice for the US Mid-Am. Long and pretty straight off the tee, gobbles up par 5's, has a solid iron game, has an excellent touch around the greens and is a very good putter. Our women's club champion is a +2.2 (obviously on a shorter and differently rated layout) and recently qualified for status on the Symetra Tour. She is a long way from the LPGA Tour but getting that status is still pretty impressive, IMO. I've played a lot with both and if she can get status on the Symetra Tour I have to believe that our male club champion would easily qualify for a card on the LPGA Tour.

I am comparing a Men's +2 to an LPGA not a Women's +2 to an LPGA if that makes sense I am not quite sure if I am communicating that. I think a Men's +2 would crush a Women's +2 but is it all relative?


Posted
These seem like pretty reasonable things to do. Btw, I have met one high school lady golfer in my home town who can easily beat a male scratch golfer, and I doubt she's the only one. The talent is out there, but they don't look like super models.

Um...


Posted
Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Our club champion is currently a +.03 so I think he qualifies as a scratch golfer and he has all the skills. He has qualified twice for the US Mid-Am. Long and pretty straight off the tee, gobbles up par 5's, has a solid iron game, has an excellent touch around the greens and is a very good putter. Our women's club champion is a +2.2 (obviously on a shorter and differently rated layout) and recently qualified for status on the Symetra Tour. She is a long way from the LPGA Tour but getting that status is still pretty impressive, IMO. I've played a lot with both and if she can get status on the Symetra Tour I have to believe that our male club champion would easily qualify for a card on the LPGA Tour.

Originally Posted by GHIN0011458

I am comparing a Men's +2 to an LPGA not a Women's +2 to an LPGA if that makes sense I am not quite sure if I am communicating that. I think a Men's +2 would crush a Women's +2 but is it all relative?

I wasn't commenting on your post at all. I was comparing two players with whom I am familiar, and the male scratch golfer has much more game than the Symetra qualifier.

Bill M

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I wasn't commenting on your post at all. I was comparing two players with whom I am familiar, and the male scratch golfer has much more game than the Symetra qualifier.

There is a huge disparity even among LPGA players, and more in Symetra tour.   I.e, a Symetra qualifier can't really be compared against s scratch player which was what one of the posters were comparing the top LPGA players against.

RiCK

(Play it again, Sam)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Except I'm not sure they play the true women's tees, I think they play a melding of the different tees, but I do think that a really good scratch golfer would hold their own on the LPGA tour.  At the current LPGA tournament in Thailand, even par would be good enough Tied for 42, and most of the ladies driving average is 250-ish, some lower a couple high.  but a good scratch golfer I think would probably be 30+ yards further.  The course in Thailand they are playing is 6,500 Yds.

So that corresponds to the Blue tees.  I would think a good scratch player would do well.  not saying they would win every tournament, but I'm guessing they would do for the most part pretty well.

Yes, but that scorecard also says (lower right) the course rating for those blue tees is 74.1 So by definition, our scratch golfer shoots about a 74 there about one round in five. So where do you think he is today after two rounds? Using Dave's formula of CR+1 for each round, he's at 150, tied for 66th in a field of 70, a full 20 strokes behind leader Stacy Lewis.

It does seem a scratch golfer could make the LPGA tour and compete some, but I still think it's going to be a struggle for him to keep that card. If you aren't in the top 100 on the money list, it's tough. There are spots for those in the 101-125 range, but at that point on the priority list you are also behind the top 20 from Q school, the top 10 from the Symetra tour, and qualifyers based on career earnings and wins.  So basically 150+ range on the priority list.

I think the numbers generally suggest the top LPGA ladies are in the +2 to +3 range (meaning if they had men's handicaps), so our scratch golfer isn't one of the top players. I think the question is more whether or not he can at least get comfortably into the 80-100 range where he at least has a fair chance to keep that card. I think that might be debatable.

  • Upvote 1

Posted

BTW, there is no such thing as good scratch golfer as opposed to a bad one.   Scratch golfer has a narrow definition of carrying HI of near 0.   So statement like a "good" scratch golfer can do such  and such doesn't make sense to me.  A scratch golfer can average 300 or 220 drives but at the end of the day, I would expect them to score similar under LPGA playing condition.

RiCK

(Play it again, Sam)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

So it looks like it is pretty much in lines with what I was thinking off the top of my head. I just know what a tough 6,600 yard course is like and they are still getting fairly under par which would put some of our +2's around here in the same lines with them. @Vinsk I think you underestimate some things in regards to their play.


Posted

Well I entered in all of my tournament scores at the end of the season just to see what it was and my TOURNAMENT handicap for the year is 0.5. So I need to lose 2.5 strokes and my nuts and I could get out there and compete.


Plus, you'd have to wear those pink skirts, that's the deal breaker, right? ;-):-D

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
@GHIN0011458 yeah...you're probably right. I just have watched so much more LPGA than ever before of late and I get irked when the announcers (Judy Rankin particularly) make comparisons with the men. I don't think they come close. Annika proved that years ago. I must admit that in previous posts I think I was referring to PGA tour players rather than local yokal scratch golfers and for that...my mistake. I've played with many young college and recreational scratch golfers who were just awesome ball strikers and playing with these guys I have a hard time imagining them struggling on a LPGA course from the ladies tees. I have to agree with Iacas on not being too impressed with their short games however. There is no question that they simply make the greens and pin placement easier than they do with the men. And if chipping and putting don't rely on testosterone, then why do they do this? Why can't the women play shorter tees than the men...BUT ALL ELSE EQUAL. That's my conundrum I guess.

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I apologize if this has already been posted. I have not read thru all 14 pages of replies.

I would think that someone like Jeff Knox would perform just fine on the LPGA tour.

He is the official "marker" for the Masters and has played with Jim Furyk, Craig Stadler, Sergio Garcia, Bubba Watson, Keegan Bradley, Miguel Jimenez, and most recently Rory McIlroy (who he beat by 1 stroke).

The articles below have stated that he has a winning average of greater than 50% against the pros.

Now he doesn't have the pressure of trying to win for a living and he is usually paired with the last golfer to make the cut but still he is playing against PGA pros on their tee box.

Obviously he does not wilt under the pressure of playing in front of a large crowd as I expect that the crowds he faced while playing with Bubba or Rory on the Masters weekend would be larger than any faced by LPGA players.

He has competed at various amateur tournaments at state levels so playing well at different courses other than his home course of Augusta National is not an issue.

Augusta National is a reasonably hard course so he doesn't have an inflated handicap.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/apr/14/the-masters-jeff-knox

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-devil-ball-golf/meet-jeff-knox--the-guy-with-the-greatest-job-in-golf--augusta-marker-155021216.html

http://www.augusta.com/masters/story/masters/jeff-knox-gets-call-augusta-national-bullpen


Posted
was looking at Kiawah Island and thier 6200 132 slope yard tee box had both mens and womans handicap index. 76.7 women and 70.9 mens. That would mean the woman would have to be a +6 to equal a scratch male. Their 7356 144 slope has a rating of 77.3 That is an extra 1000 yards and 12 degrees equals the same handicap. From 6800 138 it is a 73.5. I just have to imagine that for a woman that would be an 80+. based on the progression. Female golfer would have to play to a +8 to beat the male. I think you are underestimating a male scratch golfer. This was posted in another discussion I came across....interesting ..

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
was looking at Kiawah Island and thier 6200 132 slope yard tee box had both mens and womans handicap index. 76.7 women and 70.9 mens. That would mean the woman would have to be a +6 to equal a scratch male. Their 7356 144 slope has a rating of 77.3 That is an extra 1000 yards and 12 degrees equals the same handicap. From 6800 138 it is a 73.5. I just have to imagine that for a woman that would be an 80+. based on the progression. Female golfer would have to play to a +8 to beat the male. I think you are underestimating a male scratch golfer. This was posted in another discussion I came across....interesting ..

There's an offset of 6 strokes on my home course as well, and that seems to indicate that a women +6 would be equal to a male scratch and not +8?

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

The difference is distance off the tee which affects every club in the bag. Faster SS can also put more spin on the ball for stopping on greens. I really don't see the point in this thread. Yes, men are stronger, they can hit the ball further, and with higher SS can stop the ball on faster greens much easier because of simple physics. If you can hit an approach shot with an 8 iron from further away, you'll be able to impart more backspin on the ball and it is more likely to stop than say with a hybrid. It's that simple. That's why the greens are maybe not stimped as high as they are for the men's tournaments. And does it really matter?

That's why the course ratings are higher for women from the same distance than for men.

I think some people have way too much invested in this for it to have gone on for 15 pages.

Also I really don't see any point in this thread.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Also I really don't see any point in this thread.

Speculation as to the level of competition on the LPGA tour is the reason.

Part of the reason, at least I would assume, that the LPGA tour is less competitive is just because athletic and gifted individuals are better off taking up other sports (or non-athletic endeavors) professionally. Women's golf pays diddly unless you're the best in the world.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
@DrvFrShow Then you may politely leave. It's a discussion. Take your football and go home.

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Speculation as to the level of competition on the LPGA tour is the reason.

Part of the reason, at least I would assume, that the LPGA tour is less competitive is just because athletic and gifted individuals are better off taking up other sports (or non-athletic endeavors) professionally. Women's golf pays diddly unless you're the best in the world.

This I totally agree. Women's golf doesn't pay much at all. You make most of your money from your endorsements, and still compared to men's golf the amount is a pittance. Those who play are not doing it for the money.

It's this way in all women's sports except for tennis.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 1491 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Still working on the backswing a bit. Hand still gets away from the body, out towards the ball, and at A2 the club wants to roll over and get flat at A3. It's just very difficult to shallow from that position like I want. Which makes my downswing work impossible.  Backswing I have been playing around with the left leg straightening to start the backswing. It's like, a slight shove of the hips right with the left leg. Then just keep the flex in the right knee as I turn into it. I kind of like it. I never had a good swing trigger. It helps keep my left knee extended.  Yea, definitely feeling the hand path is traveling down the feet line, and straight up. A little bit of wrist rotation, and a lot more hinge sooner in the right wrist and elbow. I am trying to get the feeling that the arm hinging up then is the cause for the right shoulder to retract to finish the backswing. Club feels much more vertical at A3. I am trying to have my wrist fully hinged by then.  Feel the club and arms stop at A3.5 (my A4). If my arm collapses late, then I turn into that and I am pretty much screwed. The club and arms kind of have a floaty feeling, where they are just suspended in air for a bit, then drop.  Downswing I have been trying to think of a good visual for this mentally. I like the idea of my hands taking a wide arc to my right pocket, or I am taking the back of the hosel and trying to hit the ground behind my right foot.    Left knee stuff, just sooner. 
    • Day 78 - 2026-03-10 Backswing work at the net with foam balls, a few real ball swings.
    • Day 525 - 2026-03-10 Got some work in before lessons today (was going to play after but it decided to POUR). Then like three minutes in later on.
    • Day 2 (10 Mar 26) - Worked on weight shift feel using slap stick drill (hands about 6” apart - coming back weight on trail foot - down - thru weight on lead foot….moved it to hitting chips w/9i playing what I call “leap frog” - hit 1st about 10yds, the next a couple past the 1st, for about 6 balls total.  Love it as the lies change, the distances vary making each swing slightly different. 
    • The first post is here:   Do you have an overly long backswing that ruins sequencing and leads to poor shots? In nearly 20 years of teaching, I've found 5 common faults. You don't have to swing like Jon Rahm, but a shorter swing will probably help you #PlayBetter golf. Which is your fatal flaw? #1 - Trail Elbow Bend Average golfers ♥️ bending their trail elbows. It can feel powerful! Tour players bend their trail elbows MUCH less. A wider trail elbow creates a longer hand path and preserves structure. It also forces more chest turn; not everything longer is bad! Overly bending your trail elbow can wreak havoc on your swing. It pulls your arms across/beside your body. It requires more time to get the elbow bend "out," ruining your sequencing. The lead arm often bends and low point control is destroyed. The misconception is that it will create more speed, but that's often the opposite of what happens. Golfers often feel they swing "easier" but FASTER with wider trail elbows. Want to play better golf with a shorter backswing? Don't bend your elbow so much. #2 - Hip (Pelvis) Turn I see this all the time: a golfer's hips are only 5-10° open at impact, but he turns them back 60°+ in the backswing. Unless your father is The Flash, your hips are probably not getting 40° open at impact from there! That's more rotation than Rory! Golfers who over-rotate their pelvis often over-turn everything - trail thigh/knee, chest/shoulders, etc. They have more work to do in the same ~0.3 seconds as a Tour player who turns back ~40° and turns through to impact 40° or so. Want to shorten the pelvis turn a bit? Learn to internally rotate into the trail hip, externally rotate away from the lead hip, and do "less" with your knees (extending and flexing) in the backswing. Learn some separation between chest and pelvis. #3 - Rolled Inside and Lifted Up Amateurs love to send the club (and their arms) around them. You see the red golfer here all the time at your local range. The problem? Your arms mostly take the club UP, not around. Going around creates no height until you have to hoist the club up in the air because you're halfway through your backswing and the club is waist high and three feet behind your butt! 😄  Learn to use your arms properly. Arms = up/down, body = around. Most golfers learn how little their arms really have to do in the backswing. The picture here is all you've gotta do (but maybe with a properly sized club!). #4 - Wide Takeaway Width is good, no? Yes, if you're wide at the right time and in the right spots. Golfers seeking width often don't hinge the club much early in the backswing… forcing them to hinge it late. Hinging the club late puts a lot of momentum into the club, wrists, and elbow just before we need to make a hairpin turn in transition and go the other direction at the start of the downswing. When you're driving into a hairpin curve, you go into it slowly and accelerate out of it. Waiting to hinge is like coasting down the straightaway and accelerating into the hairpin. Your car ends up off the road, and your golf ball off the course. Give hinging at a faster rate (earlier) then coasting to the top a try. You'll be able to accelerate out of the hairpin without the momentum of the arms and club pulling in the wrong direction.   #5 - Sway and Tilt Some sway is good but sometimes I see a golfer who just… keeps… swaying… Their chest leans forward a bit for balance, resulting in a whole lotta lean. The green line below is the GEARS "virtual spine." Pros sway a bit, but stay ~90°. This sway often combines with the extra pelvis turn because this golfer is not putting ANY limits on what the "middle of them" (their pelvis) is doing in the backswing. These golfers spend a lot of energy just to get back to neutral! The best players begin pushing forward EARLY in the backswing. Often before the club gets much past their trail foot! Pushing forward (softly) first stops your backward sway and then begins to get your body moving toward the target. Push softly, but early!  
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.