The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[jamo]

How would the head getting too far forward manifest itself in the actual shot (i.e., left/right miss, thin/fat contact)?

Brandon

For me, it's a nasty pull hook that creeps up every now and then.

[bplewis24]

Alright, I'll try and remain conscious of it next week at the range.  For now, I'm just gonna keep working on the lower body... and try and shoot a couple rounds in the 80s this weekend :)

Brandon

[DannyG]

P.S. My drill, the "hips forward, half swing" thing that's posted via YouTube fairly often... note that the knees aren't straight there. They're not super bent, but they're not yet straight either.

Can you post a link to this?

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by DannyG

Can you post a link to this?

This one?

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

This one?

When doing this drill, should you have a normal ball flight?

My ball flight is that of a low punch shot that only carries about 75-100 yards with a 6-iron and rolls out to maybe 120 or so.

Brandon

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

When doing this drill, should you have a normal ball flight?

My ball flight is that of a low punch shot that only carries about 75-100 yards with a 6-iron and rolls out to maybe 120 or so.

It won't be as far or as high. It shouldn't be too low though because that might mean you've shifted your head forward as well. Divots shouldn't be too steep either.

[bplewis24]

I believe you are correct that my head was too far forward.  Earlier today I moved my head back and noticed it allowed me to extend my backswing a little more and I had a higher ball flight.  Not as high as normal, but higher.  I will continue working on it.

Brandon

[k14]

I hope it is ok to post these photos here, if not move it to my "my swing" thread.

I am pretty sure a big cause of my over the top move is my right knee kicking out/left heel coming off the ground. So after reading this thread a few times I have been trying to get the left knee bending inwards and the hip slide going. I am still coming over the top and hitting probably 50% fades and 50% slices. I have been doing a lot of work but I just seem to be going around in circles. Is anyone able to give me a few pointers as to what other things I can try? I am starting to wonder if I am not rotating hips enough and my shoulders too much on backswing? I am a chronic over swinger but when I think about it I am able to keep my club close to parallel at the top of the swing. I am seriously considering some evolvr lessons but will invest in a better camera first.

Here are some screenshots from a video I took yesterday. So is that enough hip slide and am I focusing on the wrong bit. When I try to really slide more my lower back starts to get a bit sore after 10-12 swings.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by k14

I hope it is ok to post these photos here, if not move it to my "my swing" thread.

It's probably best to ask for the specific things (which may or may not be "more sliding of the hips" in that thread , yes. In short, you need less of that right knee kicking in and more of it pushing your right hip forward (lengthening the right leg during the downswing may be the feeling for you). They go hand in hand - less right knee flex, hips forward more, left knee bent longer. You need more of both, though, yes. If you can strike the ball solidly, I don't care that you translate off the ball during the backswing. I don't know that it's the case, though.

[colin007]

Originally Posted by iacas

I don't care that you translate off the ball during the backswing.

GASP!!!

erik, did you really just say that??  lol ;)

[k14]

Originally Posted by iacas

It's probably best to ask for the specific things (which may or may not be "more sliding of the hips" in that thread, yes. In short, you need less of that right knee kicking in and more of it pushing your right hip forward (lengthening the right leg during the downswing may be the feeling for you). They go hand in hand - less right knee flex, hips forward more, left knee bent longer. You need more of both, though, yes. If you can strike the ball solidly, I don't care that you translate off the ball during the backswing. I don't know that it's the case, though.

Ok thanks, I took your advice and posted some videos over in "that" thread as suggested. I will work on the leg straightening and come back to you.

[bunkerputt]

I think this finally clicked for me today.  One slight, but extremely critical change made the last couple of weeks work with this fall into place:  straighten the right leg more on the backswing.  I don't know exactly how much more it straightened, maybe 5-10 degrees or so.  Now I feel like I have leverage to push over to my left instead of muscle-ing it from a level-hip position with the glutes and foot.  The club also goes back nicely on an inside track and it doesn't take near as much work to get deep on my backswing.  Also, the pain on the outside portion of my right calf muscle is completely gone now.  Instantly started crushing the ball with a boring trajectory.  I was hitting 7-iron as far as the guy next to me was carrying driver.  What an un-earthly sound with such little effort.  I barely broke a sweat and we're in a Texas heat wave right now!  Looking forward to working on that just a little more to get comfortable with it and post some video for you guys to critique.....  Fairly straight right leg at the top of the backswing is really important to being able to push to a proper slide.

[bunkerputt]

Another thing that helps considerably:  try to get your right head lower at the top of the backswing than it was at address.  It probably won't be much lower at all, but it will feel like it.  With a lower head and straighter right leg, it's almost impossible not to slide to start the downswing.  Getting my head lower on the backswing and then even lower again on the downswing as a result of the proper leg motion has made me have to increase my club yardages by 25 yards.  My hands are almost outside my left leg at impact.  Completely unreal strike and disbelief from most people when they see what club I'm hitting off the tee.  All thanks to this thread.

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Another thing that helps considerably:  try to get your right head lower at the top of the backswing than it was at address.

Sadly both of my heads are pretty much tied to the centerline of my body.

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Sadly both of my heads are pretty much tied to the centerline of my body.

I was confused by your post, until I reread what I had posted.  Now it makes perfect sense.  I said "right head", but I really meant "upper head".

[Stretch]

Just pulling your (straight right) leg.

Do agree with you, though. That compression into the ground and lowering of the head often seems to be a mark of a superior striker -- see Tiger, Sergio, Rory, Couples, Player etc. etc. Hadn't really thought about it before specifically in conjunction with the sliding piece. Interesting! Thanks.

[mkdrep]

I realize that this is an old "thread", however I am new to the site and just reading through some of this information.  Erik: I think what is confusing is that while you say that most tour pro's hips are only "slightly" open at impact, pictures seem to indicate otherwise.  From the caddie view, their hips do seem to stay facing the ball at impact, however, the DTL view indicates that their hips have turned open quite a bit.  Even the your picture with the tri-pod shows you have opened your hips to the target line at P6, which means they are probably more open at impact than they are at P6. It appears to me that while you must make a hip slide on the downswing, it's also important that your shoulders are pretty square to the target line, hence the shoulders are closed in relation to the hips at impact. Sliding the hips will enable you to keep your shoulders square, whereas if you twist your hips open on the downswing, the shoulders will automatically spin out to the left, cause a ball flight that starts left of the target line.

Also, it might help if you posted some of your students hip position at P6 and then compare them to a PGA tour pro at P6....similar to the pictures you took with the tri-pod drill.

thanks.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by mkdrep

I realize that this is an old "thread", however I am new to the site and just reading through some of this information.  Erik: I think what is confusing is that while you say that most tour pro's hips are only "slightly" open at impact, pictures seem to indicate otherwise.

I can't agree or disagree because we've not defined "slightly."

The average golfer's hips are much more open at impact than the average PGA Tour player. The average good player's hips are much more closed at impact than the average PGA Tour player.

In other words, as I think I've said before, the average golfer will spin too much and not have enough lateral slide. Contact issues, path issues... you name it.

I also suspect the amount the hips are open on the PGA Tour is less than you'd think, too. Peter Kostis loves to talk about how well someone's "cleared" their hips but it's not like PGA Tour players are hitting the ball with their hips 70 degrees open at impact. More like 20 to 45 or so. Unless you're talking about Jim Furyk.

Plus: http://iacas.org/f/impact_positions.jpg .

Originally Posted by mkdrep

From the caddie view, their hips do seem to stay facing the ball at impact, however, the DTL view indicates that their hips have turned open quite a bit.

I don't want the hips facing the ball at impact. That'd be way too closed . But if you're an average golfer and your hips are "too open" then you might have to feel like they're still facing the ball and they've only slid, closed, towards first base or something.

Originally Posted by mkdrep

Even the your picture with the tri-pod shows you have opened your hips to the target line at P6, which means they are probably more open at impact than they are at P6.

I'm too open in those images. It's something I've worked on. I'm less open now, but I'm still open at impact (as I should be). If you think I'm advocating hips square to the target line at impact, I'm not, and I hope I haven't said anything to imply that.

Originally Posted by mkdrep

It appears to me that while you must make a hip slide on the downswing, it's also important that your shoulders are pretty square to the target line, hence the shoulders are closed in relation to the hips at impact.

Yep. I've hopefully not said any differently. Shoulders relatively square to the target, hips pointing left (for a righty). In fact, torso/chest pointing left too (shoulder measurements are different than chest measurements).

Originally Posted by mkdrep

Sliding the hips will enable you to keep your shoulders square, whereas if you twist your hips open on the downswing, the shoulders will automatically spin out to the left, cause a ball flight that starts left of the target line.

Yes, plus, too many amateurs have their hips too far open and not enough forward at impact. For many it will also twist their shoulders too far open, but that's not really what the thread's about.