Christians

[jamo]

I haven't read anything since my post, but remember the general rules (this isn't directed at jamo, but in scanning his post it may be necessary):

What i meant was, i'm going to stay out of any and all debates regarding religion and politics, because it could get messy.

[Cussin hacker]

You're reading way too much into it. Like the atheist, you want me to fit some kind of mold or perception that you have of Christians in general. Wise up.

What....I'm not generalizing Christians. My statements were directed at you only. You have made it clear that you do not believe the earth is any older than 20000 years. That is dispite many scientific facts that say otherwise. You have your head buried in the sand and will not can not listen to anything but what your Cristian belief tells you. Most Christians that I know are smart enough to realize that the world is older than 20000 years. It's unbeleavable to me that is what you believe.

So tell me....who disides what the emportant beliefs of Christianity are....YOU? How did we all come to be? It's just as easy to ask...Where did God come from?

[spitz20]

EDIT, no comment

[nike_golf]

What....I'm not generalizing Christians. My statements were directed at you only. You have made it clear that you do not believe the earth is any older than 20000 years. That is dispite many scientific facts that say otherwise. You have your head buried in the sand and will not can not listen to anything but what your Cristian belief tells you. Most Christians that I know are smart enough to realize that the world is older than 20000 years. It's unbeleavable to me that is what you believe.

I really don't care what you think of what I believe.

Where did God come from? I have no idea. No one knows. We all came to be from God when He created us.

[sean_miller]

EDIT, no comment

Best post in the thread. I wish I could do that.

@ Cussin Hacker - The term you're looking for is "Cafeteria Christian". Regardless of what they say, most Christians fall into this category to some degree. Each person has to find that balance. For some, a rejection of faith in the unknown is the right answer. @ nike_golf. Regarding your insistence that atheists don't think about anything on their death bed: perhaps their minds dwell on all the good and bad things done and seen during their lives. Possibly a sense of despair or hope for the future of those they leave behind, depending on how their life turned out. Probably wanting to have one more day, to cherish loved ones. I'm not sure about a heaven, but sur don't believe in hell. That's just plain ridiculous. I do believe in the here and now - being the best father, husband, son, brother, friend, co-worker, and golf buddy I can be.

[spitz20]

Best post in the thread. I wish I could do that.

lol, decided not to comment :)

[patriot07]

I haven't read anything since my post, but remember the general rules (this isn't directed at jamo, but in scanning his post it may be necessary):

My bad, I wasn't saying inherently that Democrats are wrong. I'm just saying that a study showing the majority of educated folks feel one way doesn't prove anything. Re-reading it makes me realize how it must've come off. I certainly didn't intend anything. I'm obviously a Republican, but I wasn't taking a stab at Democrats or trying to turn this into a political thread, just trying to make a point about the validity (or lack thereof) of a study regarding the theology of educated folks. Point taken though.

[patriot07]

Hey, the study is what the study is. And Republicans tend to be more religious, so hey, you've verified the studies!

lol, I'll let that one go, didn't mean for this to get political.

Uh, yeah. Do you have any clue how long a billion years is, let alone a few of them? You can't conceive of that much time. Most humans literally can't conceive of a million, let alone a billion, of anything. Do you realize how slow the rate of change could be for us to arrive at the point we're at now? Tell you what - it's slower than the rate of change we see in evolution in the current, modern day. We have examples of evolution occurring at fairly rapid rates all around us, every day. We can see large changes in populations in a few reproductive cycles.

Everything you mentioned has already been done by science. Until science starts with a single cell organism and ends with a human, it's easier for me to believe what I believe.

[zeg]

You're reading way too much into it. Like the atheist, you want me to fit some kind of mold or perception that you have of Christians in general. Wise up.

For someone who claims he's being crammed into a preconceived mold, you seem to generalize about "the atheist" an awful lot.

Everything you mentioned has already been done by science. Until science starts with a single cell organism and ends with a human, it's easier for me to believe what I believe.

I don't really see how it's much of a stretch. As Butch Harmon mentioned above, we've created building blocks for cells in very short times in the lab. If you study the cells that make up the human body, many of them are similar to single-celled organisms, many of them are very similar to those in other organisms, etc. We have seen organisms mutate in substantial ways in the lab, have seen signs of it in the wild, etc. On a personal level, I don't see how it's even remotely "easier" to believe that some unseen sentient force spontaneously created everything as it is. The only advantage I see of that is that it escapes the need to ask any more questions about how because you can't hope to find out.

[Shanks A Million]

But is it really easier to believe that we evolved from single-cell amoeba organisms? I know you didn't say specifically you did, but that's the most popular theory in the science world right now. Alot of people bring up the face that the earth is millions and billions of years old (I'm not saying it isn't, I have no idea), but that "fact" is offerred to us by the same folks that offer us the theory that the thousands of amazing complexities of the human body originated as single-cell sludge. I definitely can't believe that.

I too had some trouble believing all creatures evolved from single cell organisms, until I read a book about fossils. I still think evolution has some gaps, but it's a good explanation, and in no way interferes with god. The fossil records, sorted by era, showed a very cool progression. The single cell bacteria became multi-cellular sludge, and these started to evolve into goop. The goop became smarter and smarter, and began to develop basic motor functions by burning carbohydrate as fuel. The goop evolved very primitive sensory organs, and became sea slugs and other mollusks.

These creatures began to develop more and more, and they began developing more and more complex motor skills. Now we had our jellyfish type creatures. The sand adhered to these creatures, who then formed shells. These were the gastropods, like snails. These started to develop internal organs. Now we had the crabs and sharks. These began to develop spinal cords, and we suddenly had the amphibians and fish. The amphibians developed their flippers into more land capable legs, and took to the land. They became more adapted to walking, and became the reptiles. The reptiles began to lose their armor in favor of other devices, speed, claws, and other defenses. These became flightless birds and mammals. The flightless birds began to glide, and finally adapted to fly. The mammals slowly evolved into different types, bears, dogs, cats, marsupials, ruminants. These finally found their way to the trees, where they became adapted to climbing with their forepaws. These forepaws became more and more useful as arms, and the creatures learned to walk on their hind legs. These were the primates. The primates adapted and slowly became smarter and smarter, and walked erect. These were the humans. If you still find it hard to believe, look at dog breeds. All domestic dogs, from the Chihuahua to the Mastiff came from the Asian Wolf. One dog merely bred for certain traits now ranges from less than a pound to more than 300 lbs. That's only within the past few thousand years. Imagine what a million, or a billion could do? I believe God has more to do with consciousness, and existence, not creation. The bible is exactly what Harmon said it is, a book of lessons to teach. There's absolutely nothing science has to offer that contradicts God's existence, whatever you may believe God is, which is why most scientists do believe in God.

[Phil McGleno]

Everything you mentioned has already been done by science. Until science starts with a single cell organism and ends with a human, it's easier for me to believe what I believe.

I'll take that bet. You're gonna give 'em a billion years, right? You should be able to wire money from heaven to hell or vice versa, right? Thousand bucks. Whaddya say?

[8urVTEC]

I am saved by Grace, and Love everyday of it. Its pretty cool to have found your calling in life and I found mine in the ministry. I am working towards a master in divinity to be a baptist youth minister. I will say this, God is great, but whats amazing about the way He does things is that He makes things very personal. So I absolutley believe that the guys saying that They worship God thier own way are doing great, thats perfect, build a personal relationship with Him, and its the best thing that will ever happen to you. But worshiping with other believers is also a very fullfilling thing, if youve had a bad experience in the past with a church, its not a big surprise. After all, its a group of PEOPLE, and we are a failed group, but gracefully and beautifully enough, we have a Father that loves us like no other :) So my challenge to anybody else out there is to look at one more church, see what happens. If one person actually does that and finds a new church home, God will have amazed me ONCE AGAIN.

Oh and everybody needs to read NEW EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT by Josh McDowell, he was an athiest who set out ot "prove" Christianity wrong, and ended up become one of my favorite authors out there. great book and its a solid read for anybody

[Shanks A Million]

Shanks I know these are YouTube videos, but what station did this happen on? Is Christ TV the show or the station? These people are clueless. The only one I can give a pass on is the "all your base are belong to us" or whatever the quote was because I've only heard it because of Weezer and the guy is an old man.

I think it's an English TV station. Not sure, couldn't find a reference.

All I will offer is this: There have been and are a lot of things done in the name of God that completely contradicts the Word of God. Some of these things have been mentioned in this thread. Further, much of what is being done these days in the name of being relevant and contemporary falls only into the category of being in the name of God.

Exactly my point. So many Atheists and Agnostics have come to misplace the word "Christian" for these types. These guys are fringe, Nike Golf is fringe, most Christians are totally normal, rational people who lead very normal lives. The focus is on the extremist idiots who would kill and die in the name of god, not those who simply believe. Where I lived much of my life, Boca Raton, the majority (roughly 65%) of the population is Jewish. Boca is the most Jewish city in the United States, and as I know, the only majority Jewish city in the U.S. They sell Matzo balls and Gefilte Fish at Costco (and those yummy herring with onion in the white sour cream sauce, love that stuff... Oh, and Lox on bagels with garlic and herb cream cheese... Love that too.) Anyway, the point is that Jews are really no different than Christians. They also have their extremely crazy morons who preach all kinds of crazy rhetoric and then go beat up homeless people. The Muslims have the extremist groups too, Al Queda, Hammas, etc. The Hindus had the Thugees, and the Bhudists had Aum Shinrikyo, and so on. Every religion essentially seeks to teach people that we should co-exist, but every one also has its crazies. Communism started out the same way. George Orwell wrote the book Animal Farm about communism. The original meaning of Communism was a collectivist society, from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. After centuries of kings and a gap between rich and poor a hundred times greater than anything we've ever known, Communism was a welcome form of government. But because the word "Communism" became so highly respected, and so revered, unscrupulous leaders like Lenin sought to undermine it. I'll replace it with the word "freedom" to show you what it was like. He began to change the rules so the political elite were exempt from the rules. Claiming he supported freedom, he began to scold those who questioned him by saying, "what's the matter, do you not love freedom?" This tactic worked very well, no one would dare say they were opposed to freedom! Within a few years, the whole system had devolved into a dictatorship, and the term was forever polluted. Hence, today, communism is a pejorative.

[Brugz7]

Being a true Christian means being a true follower of Christ. I called myself a Christian my whole life up until this summer. I grew up in a Lutheran church and school. After a couple years of doing my own thing and trying to fill my voids and emptiness with the wrong things, I finally accepted Jesus as my Savior for the first time in my life. I can't explain it, but I finally have a joy that will never be taken away.

Everyone has sinned, and because of that.. we all deserve punishment, because there was a crime committed. But instead of inflicting that on us, God gave His son so that we would be forgiven and have eternal life.. and all you have to do is believe in this. I think that is the greatest thing in the world.

Guys, its not about labels and religions, its about faith and having a personal relationship with God. If we could get all the answers to everything, then God wouldn't be God. He is TOO big to fathom.

I make mistakes just like anyone else does.. but I know that no matter what I do or have done in the past, I am already forgiven because of what Jesus did for me.

[jots]

Being a true Christian means being a true follower of Christ. I called myself a Christian my whole life up until this summer. I grew up in a Lutheran church and school. After a couple years of doing my own thing and trying to fill my voids and emptiness with the wrong things, I finally accepted Jesus as my Savior for the first time in my life. I can't explain it, but I finally have a joy that will never be taken away.

Very well stated Brugz!

Oh and everybody needs to read NEW EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT by Josh McDowell,

8urVTEC, I agree, that is an excellent resource. Another is, The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus by Lee Strobel

[kfowler]

I see this thread has taken the typical route for the Christian/Non-Christian debate.

To answer the OP:

- I am a Christian and a Christ follower.
- I believe in God the Father, God the Spirit, and God the Son.
- I believe that Christ died for my sins so that I may be forgiven.
- I believe in justification through faith, not by works so that no one shall boast.
- I believe that the Bible in inerrant.

BTW, I'm also a highly educated conservative. Go figure? :D

[senorchipotle]

Being a true Christian means being a true follower of Christ. I called myself a Christian my whole life up until this summer. I grew up in a Lutheran church and school. After a couple years of doing my own thing and trying to fill my voids and emptiness with the wrong things, I finally accepted Jesus as my Savior for the first time in my life. I can't explain it, but I finally have a joy that will never be taken away.

lol, the good old ''true christian'' clause, eh?

a story, if i may: Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Brighton Sex Maniac Strikes Again." Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Scotsman would do such a thing." The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again and this time finds an article about an Aberdeen man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, "No true Scotsman would do such a thing."

[jots]

lol, the good old ''true christian'' clause, eh?

Well, I think you completely misinterpreted Brugz7 comments.

Your's is a typical non-believers response trying to hold Christians to an unrealistic standard that we know is impossible. I am a "true Christian" and as for myself and all other "true Christians" or "mature Christians" that I know, we don't have the attitude of "No true Scotsman/Christian would do such a thing". We know that in our flesh (that will be with us till the day we die), we are capable of any sin imagineable. That's why we live with the attitude of Galations 5:16 "walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh". Our goal is to not quit sinning but to learn to abide in Christ because as Jesus said, "apart from me you can do nothing". And that includes cleaning up the flesh, something we are incapable of doing in and of ourselves. It is a moment by moment choice, walk by the flesh or walk by the Spirit. If I choose to walk by the flesh then I will walk according to the sinful nature that still lives within me. If abiding in the Spirit then I know He would never lead me to do anything contrary to the word of God. So knowing all of this to be true you would never hear a "true Christian", making the type of comment you accuse us of. A young immature "babe in Christ" as the Bible calls them would make comments like that but Mature Christians know better. By the way, I thought I would edit my post with this follow up from one of my blogs I wrote a few years back since it is applicable here. This is from the opening statement: In Philippians 3:3 Paul gives us three signs of a true believer. "For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh ".