Gap between low pros and good + handicap amaterus?

[luckyluke699]

So just how big is the gap between lower level pros? In terms of golfing ability?

What got me thinking of this was seeing a +4 handicap on this board (MiniMo).

Please try to aim the answer at your general mid handicap hack like myself. I can't begin to pretend to know, but I will be slightly more specific for those of you who might be better placed to answer, or simply give your opinions. For example...

Pro: Jim Herman recently won a hundred and twenty six thousand dollars in the PGA Nationwide tour (link below).
http://www.pgatour.com/2010/tourname...cap/index.html

Amateur: Minimo (handicap +4)
http://thesandtrap.com/forum/members/13917-MiniMoe

From my limited research, in the UK the national amateur golfing team all maintain handicaps from +3 to +5, which smacks Minimo firmly in the middle of that sort of range. How big is the difference between MiniMo and over a hundred thousand dollars for winning a tourny? :P

[Par Fore]

The difference between the two???

A few lucky rolls at the right time

You have asked an excellent question, looking forward to a few answers from the + guys as well....

[Jay-Bird]

How big is the difference between MiniMo and over a hundred thousand dollars for winning a tourny? :P

I think the physical golf ability is probably similar. The differences between the average 100K winners and the good 'plus' handicap amateurs are mostly mental. Everyone hits a bad shot at times - Pros react better to bad shots.

Plus handicap amateurs play with their friends and in small tournaments for prizes. Tour pros play golf to feed their families in front of hundreds or thousands of strangers.

[luckyluke699]

What got me thinking about this was seeing the classic Tiger vs Average Jo comparison. Of course Tiger's better!

I mean I'm sure there'd be very few people here who wouldn't want to earn a hundred grand a year playing golf for a living instead of doing their day job!

[DavidFehertysBike]

I would guess the guy that just barley keeps his card on tour played to a +3 or 4 for that season. The difference between the tour guy and a ametuer plus player is probably mental endurance and putting. They are probably similar ball strikers in terms of skill.

[Phil McGleno]

MiniMoe? No proof he's a +4. He's said he hits 17/18 greens in regulation on average . Heh.

PGA Tour players who just keep their card are about a +5, but remember the "reward for excellence" starts to kick in, too. The gap between a +2 and a 2 is bigger than the one between a 2 and a 6. And, in terms of skill, it's about 100x bigger.

[luckyluke699]

MiniMoe? No proof he's a +4. He's said he hits 17/18 greens in regulation

Oh I agree entirely, there's no proof at all that he actually is a +4. That's the beautiful anonymity of the internet. The point is that there's +4s and +5s out there who aren't pro.

If I were that good I'd certainly be wanting to consider trying to close the gap down and at least think about playing full time! A man can dream though haha!

[kpaulhus]

MiniMoe? No proof he's a +4. He's said he hits 17/18 greens in regulation

How do we know your the real Butch Harmon? lol

[kfowler]

I would also think playing to a +4 at your local course with friends is a whole lot different than playing to a +4 on a pro tour. Constant pressure can do funny things to people. Not to mention the distance and conditions the pro courses are played at.

[Tiger Spuds]

I think Tiger was estimated to have a +8 handicap a few years back.That should give you a rough idea.

Although, as mentioned, the courses the pro's play are a far cry from what most amateurs would be used to.If Tiger was playing the same courses as those guys you could probably add a few onto that handicap.

[sean_miller]

. . . there's +4s and +5s out there who aren't pro. . .

In every professional sport there are lot of guys who don't quite make the final cuts. There are guys a step or two below that who will never make it. It doesn't matter whether it's a slight lack of talent, work ethic, commitment, or even just plain good fortune (no lucky breaks), they'll never quite make it to the show. And when we play against them on the weekend, we'll get our asses to us, making us realize how much we truly suck.

[Shorty]

I think Tiger was estimated to have a +8 handicap a few years back.That should give you a rough idea.

I think that Tiger's Isleworth handicap is closer to +12.

Someone did an analysis years back of what a good touring pro's handicap might be after a year of tournament play and it was hovering around the +8 mark. As for the idea that $100,000 seemed to be a wonderful thing, I would think that after entry fees and travel expenses, that player might not be in the balck, finacially. If you really want to know how good these guys are, go to a tournament and watch them on the practice tee for five minutes. You will work out the difference between them and the average low marker immediately.

[goblue107501]

One difference that I have seen brought up before is that the pro's game transfers anywhere. It is easier to maintain a handicap playing at the same few courses (not a knock on anyone, just how it is) than it is to play new courses each and every week under the toughest of conditions and pressure.

I played in a pro am once with a pro who is now top 25 in the world. He walked the course on Monday when he got into town, played a practice round on Tuesday, then the pro-am on Wednesday. He shot 67 in the pro-am having played the course only once. He was pretty much goofing off and having fun with us. I know a couple guys who are + handicaps at the course and they only shoot 67 on their best days. Another time I saw in the paper that lower level tour pro shot a 65 at a pro-am at a course that wasnt' even the tournament course. He had never played there before, and shot a 65.

I guess my point is, the tour pros know how to play anywhere.

[iacas]

I think that Tiger's Isleworth handicap is closer to +12.

I heard the same thing, except that's a course handicap, not an index.

Someone did an analysis years back of what a good touring pro's handicap might be after a year of tournament play and it was hovering around the +8 mark.

Nah.

http://thesandtrap.com/the_numbers_g...es_of_the_pros

[allin]

One difference that I have seen brought up before is that the pro's game transfers anywhere. It is easier to maintain a handicap playing at the same few courses (not a knock on anyone, just how it is) than it is to play new courses each and every week under the toughest of conditions and pressure.

I think you nailed it, the ability to adjust quickly, mental toughness to shrug off mistakes or bad breaks, the personality to enjoy or at least the comptetiveness to really have to, not want to do something like this. I know myself that even with their level of ability, and I know I would have been willing to do the work, but I know I would not have had the frustration tolerance to keep after it year after year. Except for the cream most of the PGA players struggle week to week and make all their money in a 4 to six week period when the get hot. Twenty-twenty five weeks and you struggle twenty of them, plus the travel. I know the perks are great but compared to a Wall street CEO PGA golfers are the more deserving of what they earn.

[MiniMoe]

Biggest difference between a guy that makes it on the tour and a guy watching the tour on TV is putting. Knocking it close mean nothing if you can't make the putt.... UNDER PRESSURE . If you look at tour stats, the guy that makes the most putts from inside 12 feet usually wins. Course management is plays a huge roll, but that seems a bit obvious.

[atrapasuenos]

I think that the difference between low pros and + handicap amateurs is like 5 or 6 meters, haha, what I really meant is that the difference is in putting. You can have a good day hit a lot of GIR's but if you don't 1-putt you will not lower your score or doing up-and-downs, IMHO that's the difference, they sink putts from everywhere.

About the courses they play, yes they are tough, but I have a question, since I haven't met a touring pro... at some time they were amateurs not used to that type of courses, so they have to take the skills to play on them... they didn't born being pros, so if you practice 7-8 hours a day on your game with a coach you would be able to play almost everywhere and that's what they do, right?

Cheers!

[osubuckeye2012]

I think the difference is in their bad days and consistency. When pros don't have their swing, they can still grind out a 72-74 (mostly credited to short game skill). There is a player on our local am-tour that played professionally for awhile. He shoots in the 60's pretty much evertime he steps on the course, but he will still have a bad day of 75-78 every 3 tournaments or so. You can still go low and recover from a 2 over round, but 6 over is pretty much out of it no matter where you are playing.