Dear U.S.A. - Are the best golfers coming through?

[michaeljames92]

This is a silly Thread. Sure the media doesn't tend to trump up too many really young american players like they do with mcilroy, ishikawa etc but they still have a bloody good depth of players. I'm not sure with what club champ is saying, pretty sure most western countries in the world offer basically most sports. Hey, even Australia offers AMERICAN FOOTBALL. Of course America is going to be leading in golf. The largest and richest tour is American, 3 majors are held in America every year including every WGC except the one in China.

[Shorty]

Of course America is going to be leading in golf. The largest and richest tour is American, 3 majors are held in America every year including every WGC except the one in China.

The point of the thread that there is a very clear trend away from America leading. From 60% of Americans in the top 100 to 30% in 20 years is not an insignificant statistic.

The United States has more in the top 50 than any other nation...

You are one country with over 300 million people. And you certainly aren't dominating. That is the point of the thread. It's not an attack.

[Shanks A Million]

You are one country with over 300 million people. And you certainly aren't dominating. That is the point of the thread. It's not an attack.

So, by your same admission, China and India are awful? No, I think it merely represents a trend toward golf becoming more popular overseas. We have 6% of the world's population, so to merely break even, we should have 6% of the world's top 100 golfers. We have more than 6%, so we're doing very well.

Your logic doesn't hold up under pressure. It's like saying that China is no longer the best nation at Ping Pong if they were to only win gold and silver at the Olympics, or the Dutch are no longer the best at speed skating because they only took the gold in 9 of 10 events. It's silly at best, uninformed at worst.

[Shorty]

So, by your same admission, China and India are awful? No, I think it merely represents a trend toward golf becoming more popular overseas. We have 6% of the world's population, so to merely break even, we should have 6% of the world's top 100 golfers. We have more than 6%, so we're doing very well.

If Australia has a population of 23 million and has 10 players in the top 100, that's a ratio which exceeds that of the U.S.A by a factor of about 5. Not even sure what you think my argument is. I am not saying that the U.S.A. should be dominating at golf, I am merely mentioning that its dominance is in a rapid decline. That's probably good for the game. Like I said, from 60% to 30% in the top 100 in 20 years, and most likely 20% in another 5 or ten years. I would also think that your logic of thinking that my point is akin to saying that a 90% positive result in speed skating would be bad for Holland is silly at best and flawed at worst. I doubt whether 1% of the billions in China and the subcontinent have access to golf. Therefore, you should be overrepresented, not underrepresented, as was the case, because I would assume that well over 80% of Americans could conceivably have access to golf.

[Fourputt]

If Australia has a population of 23 million and has 10 players in the top 100, that's a ratio which exceeds that of the U.S.A by a factor of about 5. Not even sure what you think my argument is. I am not saying that the U.S.A. should be dominating at golf, I am merely mentioning that its dominance is in a rapid decline. That's probably good for the game. Like I said, from 60% to 30% in the top 100 in 20 years, and most likely 20% in another 5 or ten years. I would also think that your logic of thinking that my point is akin to saying that a 90% positive result in speed skating would be bad for Holland is silly at best and flawed at worst. I doubt whether 1% of the billions in China and the subcontinent have access to golf. Therefore, you should be overrepresented, not underrepresented, as was the case, because I would assume that well over 80% of Americans could conceivably have access to golf.

Golf in the US is not in decline, regardless of your misleading analysis of the numbers. Golf in the rest of the world is on an upswing. That is the only real difference in the last 20 years. This is a classic case of making statistics mean what you want them to mean, not what they actually say.

[jamo]

This really is dumb. We've won the last 2 Olympics, we have the most golfers in the top 50, what more do you want?

[tm22721]

Japan lost 95% of its golf memberships since their recession started in 1990 and it's still not over. Coming our way...

[aca247]

If Australia has a population of 23 million and has 10 players in the top 100, that's a ratio which exceeds that of the U.S.A by a factor of about 5. Not even sure what you think my argument is. I am not saying that the U.S.A. should be dominating at golf, I am merely mentioning that its dominance is in a rapid decline. That's probably good for the game. Like I said, from 60% to 30% in the top 100 in 20 years, and most likely 20% in another 5 or ten years. I would also think that your logic of thinking that my point is akin to saying that a 90% positive result in speed skating would be bad for Holland is silly at best and flawed at worst. I doubt whether 1% of the billions in China and the subcontinent have access to golf. Therefore, you should be overrepresented, not underrepresented, as was the case, because I would assume that well over 80% of Americans could conceivably have access to golf.

The point of the thread that there is a very clear trend away from America leading. From 60% of Americans in the top 100 to 30% in 20 years is not an insignificant statistic.

if we are not dominant then why have we won the last 3 presidents cups and last ryder cup

[James_Black]

if we are not dominant then why have we won the last 3 presidents cups

Your not going to win this year!

[nike_golf]

Tiger Woods is far and away the best golfer now and for the past decade.

He's American.

We win.

[Fatphil]

Johnny Miller addressed this yesterday on the telecast, many of the US' best athletes play other sports..basketball, football, etc. Golf for the most part is a fringe sport at the pro level but it's enormously popular on the recreational level.

Look at soccer in the US...the kids who try out for the soccer team are the kids who got cut from the football team. Same with golf...you just don't see the best jocks playing golf.

[zeg]

Johnny Miller addressed this yesterday on the telecast, many of the US' best athletes play other sports..basketball, football, etc. Golf for the most part is a fringe sport at the pro level but it's enormously popular on the recreational level.

I was thinking along those lines, but I'm not sure it explains it: there are plenty of other sports in other countries too. It'd be interesting (and probably difficult) to dig up numbers for the relative sizes of various pro sports in the US versus other countries and see if we can substantiate this. Other than maybe the UK, I'd have expected golf to be more popular/common in the US than other places, although I don't have a real strong basis for that.

[Randy4h]

Had a thought yesterday as I was watching the college basketball tournament show. As the cameras showed each team as they were named to the tournament, it was no surprise that the vast majority of players were black. This is not news. Now, it could be argued that, among the major sports, basketball players have the most athletic ability. It is also true that the majority of top basketball players come from urban areas, where there is little or no access to golf courses or golf instruction.

What if all of those athletes had been brought up on golf rather than basketball? Would they not dominate the pga tour? Assuming the same practice regimen, the same access to top quality instruction, everything; wouldn't a 6'6" athlete have a better chance at excelling than a 5'9" athlete, purely from a physical standpoint? If LeBron James grew up in Tiger's house, would he have become the best golfer, assuming they had the same mental toughness, the same desire, etc.

Of course, this is just a fantasy, but it is interesting to think about.

[colin007]

Had a thought yesterday as I was watching the college basketball tournament show. As the cameras showed each team as they were named to the tournament, it was no surprise that the vast majority of players were black. This is not news. Now, it could be argued that, among the major sports, basketball players have the most athletic ability. It is also true that the majority of top basketball players come from urban areas, where there is little or no access to golf courses or golf instruction.

i have often thought of this same issue. i would love to see what some freakishly talented guy like Kobe or Lebron would do had they been raised with a club in their hands.

[zeg]

Interesting, but IMO they would not necessarily dominate. The NBA, as you point out, is extremely physical---speed, agility, vertical leap, etc, are the keys to success. Golf has a somewhat different requirement---strength is important, but dexterity is a lot more important. I think there's a huge population of people who lack the raw athleticism for basketball but who have the finesse and dexterity to be expert golfers. Even among the athletes who do focus on golf, it doesn't seem to me that any particular body type dominates the field, so I think that suggests that the strength/speed that gives you the edge in basketball aren't as much of an advantage for golf.

[chriskzoo]

Anyone have a link to some stats about winners under 30 - I'd be interested to see who has the most? As for Rory McInroy - great talent, but until he wins some tournaments other than the one he won in Dubai, he's the Michelle Wie of the PGA Tour.

As has been stated, Tiger is still the greatest and even IF the best talent is coming from Europe/Japan nowadays, their careers will be nullified a bit as long as Tiger keeps doing what Tiger does. The Euros and Japan may have the sizzle (McIlroy, Ishikawa), but the US has the steak with guys like Mahan, O'hair, Glover, etc.

[Fourputt]

Anyone have a link to some stats about winners under 30 - I'd be interested to see who has the most? As for Rory McInroy - great talent, but until he wins some tournaments other than the one he won in Dubai, he's the Michelle Wie of the PGA Tour.

Steak??? More like unseasoned ground beef. Bland and boring.... no pizazz. That's the real issue with so many of the young US players. There is talent there, but no spark, no fire. They may have talent enough to achieve stardom, but they've found that they can become very rich without having to the extra work required to be top dog, and that is an ambition killer. I'd be amazed if any of them is ever more than a journeyman on Tour. They might even luck into a major win, but I don't see anyone among them who has shown me anything that translates into a consistent winner.

I could be wrong, but I'd like to see some more fire. Anthony Kim has the fire.... maybe he has the talent too. I hope so. We need some young guns with the desire to give the rest of the world a target to shoot for, not a doormat to wipe their feet on.

[chriskzoo]

Steak??? More like unseasoned ground beef. Bland and boring.... no pizazz. That's the real issue with so many of the young US players. There is talent there, but no spark, no fire. They may have talent enough to achieve stardom, but they've found that they can become very rich without having to the extra work required to be top dog, and that is an ambition killer. I'd be amazed if any of them is ever more than a journeyman on Tour. They might even luck into a major win, but I don't see anyone among them who has shown me anything that translates into a consistent winner.

Hey, I like pizazz as much as the next guy - Camilo (boring as hell interview, though I love the game) is my favorite after Tiger. Everyone always jumps on "next great Euro" though and NONE of them have panned out since Faldo left the game. Really, who has stepped up and actually WON something? Sergio has won ONCE in the last 4 years. Ian Poulter has won ONCE on the PGA tour. Paul Casey - ONCE.

Aside from Harrington, the Euros have done squat on the big tour. The winners have actually been coming from everywhere BUT Europe.