Cheyenne Woods (Tiger's Niece) Thread

[rkim291968]

On 11/28/2015, 1:41:18, Pendragon said:

Based on her play over the past year or so, it won't take much to be bigger than Michelle Wie who, in my opinion, has pretty much turned into a bust. After her impressive results as a teen, her parents have ruined her career...first with their insistence that she play against the men and, since then, with their total control over both her golf and personal life. It's pretty sad that Michelle, at age 26, still lives with her parents and lets them guide her every move. It's a shame that all that talent is being squandered. 

Are you talking about the same Wie?  She has won 4 times in LPGA including a major. She's no Chyenne or Kournikova.   Neither won anything to speak of compared to Wie.  If you meant Wie didn't meet the high expectation, you may be correct.  But she is hardly a bust.

And I don't know much about what you stated above on her family & Wie.   Unless you are a personal friend, relative, or someone who can definitively in the know, I doubt if what you stated is 100% accurate.

[Pendragon]

10 hours ago, rkim291968 said:

Are you talking about the same Wie?  She has won 4 times in LPGA including a major. She's no Chyenne or Kournikova.   Neither won anything to speak of compared to Wie.  If you meant Wie didn't meet the high expectation, you may be correct.  But she is hardly a bust.

And I don't know much about what you stated above on her family & Wie.   Unless you are a personal friend, relative, or someone who can definitively in the know, I doubt if what you stated is 100% accurate.

Her parents, particularly her father, have definitely hurt her career, and that's well documented. Here's a talented, attractive young woman who's 26 years old, but still lives with her parents and allows them to control her life...pretty pathetic. And her performance over the past year or so is not great, to say the least, with not any top 10's in 2015.

The best thing she could ever do is kick her parents out of the house and start making her own decisions about her life and career.  

[mvmac]

10 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

The best thing she could ever do is kick her parents out of the house and start making her own decisions about her life and career. 

You're speaking like you know this for a fact. Maybe she likes having her parents around.

[rkim291968]

45 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Her parents, particularly her father, have definitely hurt her career, and that's well documented. Here's a talented, attractive young woman who's 26 years old, but still lives with her parents and allows them to control her life...pretty pathetic. And her performance over the past year or so is not great, to say the least, with not any top 10's in 2015.

The best thing she could ever do is kick her parents out of the house and start making her own decisions about her life and career.  

She had an exceptional year in 14 but was plagued by injuries in 15. 

I serious doubt you know the best thing for Wie to do. From her interviews and the way she carries herself, she seems to be living her own life and enjoying it.   She was proud of getting her college degree.  People say she is an emo or close to it.   These do not sound like her parents are controlling her life.  BTW, there is nothing wrong with grown children living with their parents.  If they like it, why not?

[pganapathy]

Provided her parents are doing what is good for her, I say it is a good thing.  She can have her parents organize everything so that the money she pays a manager stays within the family.  Also, generally her parents will have her best interest in mind (though sometimes parents tend to want their children to accomplish what they couldn't in life and live vicariously through them, sometimes to their detriment) and tend to focus on the longer term good rather than the short term.  Additionally living with your parents means that you have the support system in place to focus on golf only.  Would a manager truly provide that.  Debatable

[iacas]

11 hours ago, Pendragon said:

Her parents, particularly her father, have definitely hurt her career, and that's well documented. Here's a talented, attractive young woman who's 26 years old, but still lives with her parents and allows them to control her life...pretty pathetic. And her performance over the past year or so is not great, to say the least, with not any top 10's in 2015.

Pretty sure that's not true.

[Pendragon]

On 12/1/2015, 8:54:07, iacas said:

Pretty sure that's not true.

I'm not sure which of those you're saying isn't true, but let's start with the "lives with her parents" issue. According to Ron Kroichick in the May 2012 issue of Golf Digest, Wie bought a house in Jupiter, FL that year, and her parents, B.J. and Bo, moved in with her. There's no record of their having moved since then.

As for her parents controlling her life, that's been well documented for years. It made more sense when she was in her teens, but at age 26? Really? See the book "the Sure Thing...The Making and Unmaking of Golf Phenom Michelle Wie", published in 2009 by Ballantine Books/ESPN Books. 

Another interesting piece is the Feb. 2013 editorial in BunkersParadise.com by LPGA pro Kate Hughes, where she documents in detail numerous instances of what she describes as "stifling behavior" on the part of Wie's parents. In addition, Hughes didn't overlook the fact that Wie, having recently signed a big contract with Nike, purchased the aforementioned house in Jupiter, and confirmed that Wie's parents moved in with here to "help her with her career".

Pretty sure it is true.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Pendragon said:

I'm not sure which of those you're saying isn't true

The bold part.

I've heard from several people that her parents live nearby but no longer live in her actual house.

And yes, they were controlling and super-involved, but for all we know that was to her benefit. She went to college (they stayed nearby), and all I've seen the past several years is her becoming her own person.

[Pendragon]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

The bold part.

I've heard from several people that her parents live nearby but no longer live in her actual house.

And yes, they were controlling and super-involved, but for all we know that was to her benefit. She went to college (they stayed nearby), and all I've seen the past several years is her becoming her own person.

I get it. You're a charter member of the Michelle Wie fan club, so you'll ignore all of the evidence to the contrary and give her the benefit of every doubt. 

 

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

I get it. You're a charter member of the Michelle Wie fan club, so you'll ignore all of the evidence to the contrary and give her the benefit of every doubt. 

Uhmmm, no. I wrote what I said on purpose.

[Pendragon]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

Uhmmm, no. I wrote what I said on purpose.

I know you said it on purpose. You're confirming what I said. Her parents live with her and control her every move. You choose to ignore the facts. No problem. Cheers.

[iacas]

Just now, Pendragon said:

I know you said it on purpose. You're confirming what I said. Her parents live with her and control her every move. You choose to ignore the facts. No problem. Cheers.

Please.

"Oh, you're just a fanboy" and its ilk are some of the dumbest arguments people can make.

I have friends in Florida, golf pros and golfers and members of the site I've come to know, etc. that have told me things. I root for Michelle Wie but I don't ultimately care what she does with her life so long as she's happy. I think her doing well would be good for the LPGA Tour, and beyond that… it doesn't change my day-to-day life in the slightest.

And please, prove that Michelle's parents being what they were weren't the best thing for her. You won't be able to because it's just an opinion, and speculation. I'm not even saying I disagree - I'm just saying you can't really say definitively.

[Pendragon]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

Please.

"Oh, you're just a fanboy" and its ilk are some of the dumbest arguments people can make.

I have friends in Florida, golf pros and golfers and members of the site I've come to know, etc. that have told me things. I root for Michelle Wie but I don't ultimately care what she does with her life so long as she's happy. I think her doing well would be good for the LPGA Tour, and beyond that… it doesn't change my day-to-day life in the slightest.

And please, prove that Michelle's parents being what they were weren't the best thing for her. You won't be able to because it's just an opinion, and speculation. I'm not even saying I disagree - I'm just saying you can't really say definitively.

As I've indicated...and you apparently don't want to hear it...it's been documented numerous times how Wie's parents have totally screwed up her career. It started with their obsession to have her compete against the men, with obviously disatrous results, and continues to this day. Here's a tremendously talented young woman who should be among the very best players in the world, but her results have consistently come up woefully short, particularly in the past couple of years.

Compare Wie's results to those of Lydia Ko. It's no contest. Just a couple of months ago, respected golf writer Alan Shipnuck nailed it in his comments after the Evian event. In his "Heroes and Zeros" piece, Ko was a Hero, Wie a Zero. 

There's no point in continuing this back and forth, but it's clear that B.J. and Bo have messed up their daughter big-time. You can make all of the excuses that you like, but the reality is that the best thing Michelle can do is get out from under her parents' thumbs. Until that happens, Lydia will continue to dominate her. 

 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

As I've indicated...and you apparently don't want to hear it...it's been documented numerous times how Wie's parents have totally screwed up her career.

Here's what you're not understanding: those are opinions. There is no alternate reality, no alternate planet earth, where we can split Michelle Wie from her parents at an appropriate age and she has tremendous success. It's guessing. It's opinion. It's not a fact. So once again, for all you know, Michelle remaining close to her parents may have helped her overall.

3 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Here's a tremendously talented young woman who should be among the very best players in the world, but her results have consistently come up woefully short, particularly in the past couple of years.

You do realize that she won a U.S. Open last year, right?

3 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Compare Wie's results to those of Lydia Ko. It's no contest. Just a couple of months ago, respected golf writer Alan Shipnuck nailed it in his comments after the Evian event. In his "Heroes and Zeros" piece, Ko was a Hero, Wie a Zero. 

Compare Wie's results to Tiger Woods, who was super-close to his father and awfully close to his mother as well, despite not having the Korean background Michelle Wie has.

3 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

There's no point in continuing this back and forth, but it's clear that B.J. and Bo have messed up their daughter big-time. You can make all of the excuses that you like, but the reality is that the best thing Michelle can do is get out from under her parents' thumbs. Until that happens, Lydia will continue to dominate her. 

No, it's not clear. It's an opinion.

Everyone's different. You can't make definitive or factual statements about Michelle Wie because of what Lydia Ko did or didn't do. Heck,  there are a TON of golfers who split from their parents the same amount as Lydia Ko and didn't have her success.

You're confusing an opinion - a popular opinion, I grant you - with fact. They are not the same. And pointing that out does not make me a fanboy.

[MacDutch]

 I am a fan of Michelle Wie, think she is good voor LPGA and her parents are of no interest to me. But this is all way off topic here.

 

[Pendragon]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

Here's what you're not understanding: those are opinions. There is no alternate reality, no alternate planet earth, where we can split Michelle Wie from her parents at an appropriate age and she has tremendous success. It's guessing. It's opinion. It's not a fact. So once again, for all you know, Michelle remaining close to her parents may have helped her overall.

You do realize that she won a U.S. Open last year, right?

Compare Wie's results to Tiger Woods, who was super-close to his father and awfully close to his mother as well, despite not having the Korean background Michelle Wie has.

No, it's not clear. It's an opinion.

Everyone's different. You can't make definitive or factual statements about Michelle Wie because of what Lydia Ko did or didn't do. Heck,  there are a TON of golfers who split from their parents the same amount as Lydia Ko and didn't have her success.

You're confusing an opinion - a popular opinion, I grant you - with fact. They are not the same. And pointing that out does not make me a fanboy.

Not my opinion...but the opinion of many others who've documented it over and over. You keep glossing over that part. 

And there's no need to keep referring to yourself as "fanboy". It doesn't help your credibility. 

 

 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Not my opinion...but the opinion of many others who've documented it over and over. You keep glossing over that part.

At the end of the day, it's still just an opinion.

2 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

And there's no need to keep referring to yourself as "fanboy". It doesn't help your credibility. 

I didn't. You did:

13 hours ago, Pendragon said:

I get it. You're a charter member of the Michelle Wie fan club…

It was just as dumb a comment for you to make of me as you imply it is of me to make of myself.

[newtogolf]

There's no way to know if Michelle Wie would be more or less successful if her parents were less involved in her life and career, any commentary on the subject is opinion.

Cheyenne Woods appears to be talented but it's unfair to establish expectations of her solely based on her sharing some common DNA with Tiger Woods.  I'd say given she's 25 years old and has only 2 wins I wouldn't place her in the same category as Wie or any other top LPGA golfer yet.

At this point it appears she'll play on the LPGA tour but I don't see any reason to believe she will be a dominant force on it.