Acceptance of New Ball flight laws

[iacas]

Source: Jack Nicklaus, The Full Swing. Copyright 1982, by Golden Bear Inc

You said the old pros and teachers knew these laws, but they didn't. Even Nicklaus never considers the fact that you could hit a ball that sliced with a closed clubface or a ball that drew with an open clubface.

And when asked in person, at a dinner party several years ago, his initial answer was that the swing path determined the starting line of the ball. Three hours later he came back and asked if he could change his answer.

That component is almost non-existent when you strike a golf ball, since the ball stays on the clubface a mere half a millisecond or so.

It's not non-existent. It's around 15% or so. The ball does not rebound, except at slower speeds, nearly perfectly perpendicular to the clubface. 85% clubface, 15% swing path. That 15% is small relative to the 85%, but it's not nothing.

[saevel25]

True, if your club face is open 1 degree, you will need to aim nearly 6 degrees to the left to get it to go straight, but then you got a slice on your hands if you swing anywere near on your target line. To give you perspective, if its 6 degrees to the left, that means your left foot has to be about 2 inches behind the right one.

[shortstop20]

The deflection from the starting path relative to the clubface due to frictional forces is about as important as sticking your hand out the window of a car will be in determining the direction your car will roll. Yeah, you could calculate that the car would pull in that direction, but the magnitude of that drag would be overwhelmed by gyroscopic and inertial forces.

My contention was the the direction that the clubface is pointing will deflect the ball an appreciable amount, not the swing path.

think about billiard balls hitting the side of a billiards table. Angle of incidence=angle of reflection. Period.

Assuming there are no other forces acting on the ball(like left English or something).

[sean_miller]

He had a helluva lot of heuristic knowledge.

[Zeph]

Did they never think about rotating the club face on a swing robot like Iron Byron? Nobody can argue against the consistency of a robot.

[nokmond]

I'm totally new to these 'new' ball flight laws.

I've also started to struggle with a slice - my nice draw has deserted me!

So, based on these 'new' laws, to hit a nice gentle draw - where should I be aiming my clubface? Where should I be aiming my feet?

[Leftygolfer]

I'm totally new to these 'new' ball flight laws.

Feet square, club face slightly open, path in to out relative to the angle of the face.

I talked to my good golf buddy about this. He said he never hit a draw with an open face. I didn't go much into with him, I like his money.

[Hollister]

Why do my golf balls are so reluctant accepting those new laws? Stupid range balls, anyways :P

Well, will take Zephs excellent golf ball flight chart and try to debug my swing or the Pro next time on the range (whatever gets sour first - those Pros get nosy and are dispensing free advice, lately). This discussion really helps and speeds up learning from the bad shots!

[nlowplacez]

True, if your club face is open 1 degree, you will need to aim nearly 6 degrees to the left to get it to go straight, but then you got a slice on your hands if you swing anywere near on your target line. To give you perspective, if its 6 degrees to the left, that means your left foot has to be about 2 inches behind the right one.

huh? clubface open 1 degree to target line? then swing 6 deg left of target line and it goes straight? i think im misreading this. or is club face open 1 deg to swing path and path is 6 deg left of target line? not sure what u mean

[Shanks A Million]

Hypothesis, theory and law are NOT the same thing. This is a THEORY, not a LAW. (yet).

It's also just a

theory that when you're north of China, it's south, and when you're south of it, it's North. Even E=MC² is a theory . But the fact you can't stick pennies in your ear in Hawaii, that's a law .

[Dr. Strangeclub]

huh? clubface open 1 degree to target line? then swing 6 deg left of target line and it goes straight? i think im misreading this. or is club face open 1 deg to swing path and path is 6 deg left of target line? not sure what u mean

Now I'm confused. Here's how I approach it.

1. I try to determine how much fade/slice is going to be required. 2. Given that, where do I start the ball? 3. I point the clubface where I want it to start (not where I want it to wind up). 4. I set up pointing as far left as I need to for the required amount of fade draw. (This is definitely a "feel" thing.) The angles are pretty small, unless you need something truly violent -- and even then are probably smaller than you might expect. Practice pays off. 5. I take my normal grip, relative to my swing line, leaving the face open *pointing where I want it to start*. 6. I position the ball as I would a normal shot. 7. I take a normal swing along my normal swing path, which will be left of where the clubhead points. It may be incorrect. It may not be how Faldo, or Hogan or anybody else does it, but it certainly works pretty well for me. I fade and draw the ball at will, with any club, and there's never anything different about what I'm doing from a normal shot, other than my alignment relative to the clubface and setup with respect to the target line. I have hold of the club. My palms are square to my swingline. As long as I don't let go, the clubface will return to the ball at the address angle, so long as the back of my left hand has returned to square at impact. The clubface started open, the clubface will be open when it hits the ball. My swing is the same as ever, so it will be what it is, with the back of my left hand square to swingline. The ball will fade or draw to the degree that my swingplane differs from the face angle. Loft is effected, so club selection also come into play, and punching under trees and such require adjustments to the ball position. Reverse it all for a draw.

[nlowplacez]

Now I'm confused. Here's how I approach it.

i mostly agreer except im more of the grip change school. i would like to use the same swing for every single shot in my repertoire not including getting out of trouble. so if i want to fade i weaken the grip, draw use my normal neutral grip since i have a few degrees in to out on my normal swing. i do kind of teach it both ways, because it sort of depends on if the players has the ability in his hands, and can manipulate his swing in motion. i can do both but have found a grip change to be way more consistent. but other than that i think our ideas on the ball flight LAWS are in line. not theories btw.

[nlowplacez]

nevermind just reread your post, guess your grip change school too