Should Tiger Fire Haney

[Shanks A Million]

We should put into perspective though, he's missed 6 cuts as a pro in 254 starts (2.36%), while winning 14 majors and 68 tournaments. When his father got sick, then died, he missed a few cuts. And now, he's had some other problems, he's missed a few cuts. World #2, Mickelson, had missed 70 cuts in his career 510 starts (17.07%). What we've come to expect of Tiger is nothing short of perfection. We all thought the same thing last year at the British open, and next 3 starts were all wins if I recall.

We're quick to blame Haney, but we have no idea what those two do. We have no way of knowing if Haney is the problem or not, or if there even is a problem. So, well it's abnormal for Tiger, it's nothing short of phenomenal we can expect so much from one human.

[iacas]

We're quick to blame Haney, but we have no idea what those two do.

Unless it's "sit around and play Xbox 360 all day" then yes, we do: the evidence is in Tiger's golf swing.

We have no way of knowing if Haney is the problem or not

Again, yes, we do. We can look at Tiger's swing and how it's changed since switching to Hank Haney.

[authentic_golfer]

I'll let the swing gurus hash out the intricacies of Tiger's swing pre- and post-Hank... I do know that since switching to Haney in 2004, Tiger has won 6 majors and 32 tour events. So it's not like Haney wrecked the guy.

That doesn't necessarily mean he's the right guy for TW, either. Who knows what Tiger would've done with another coach (Butch), or - gasp - no coach at all.

Sean

[B Keller]

Yes. IMO he should rehire Butch, but he would never do that. Butch might not be perfect, but under him Tiger won several US Am's, US junior Am's, and had the best several years of an golfer in history in the early 2000's. It will never happen, especially because Butch works with Phil, but that is what I think he should do. If anything it actually might be best for him just to not have a coach. Get back to just swinging the golf club.

This was exactly my thoughts.

Tiger, as great as he is, has had his swing slowly degrade ever since he fired Butch and hired Hank.

[sean_miller]

I wanted to vote "No - Hank Haney should have commited Hari Kari for bringing shame on his family, saving Tiger the trouble of firing him" but I had to settle for "Yes."

HAHA - no sh**!!

Maybe I'm jaded because I watch other sports more than golf - it's always the coach's fault - fire his a**!!

[doctork]

Anyone have an opinion on who would make a good match for Tiger, aside from Butch? Can't say I'm up on the hottest teachers, outside of the usual suspects, but would be curious to hear others' thoughts.

Come to think of it, I could be talked into it, for the right price...

Cheers,
DoctorK

[deronsizemore]

Tiger has looked like Tiger at times with Hank, but he's had his B and C game far more often under Haney than he did under Butch (it seems like). Even though he's won some tournaments and even Majors with Hank, there's just always been that small feeling (even when he's playing good) that he could slice one off the planet at any time. I've always found it interesting that Tiger struggles with driving and here lately his putting; two things that plagued Haney's career before he got into teaching. Maybe Tiger is partly to blame in this situation (swinging 110% when 80% would do)? But it seems to me that Tiger brings a different swing to every tournament he plays in and hardly ever has any consistency. most recently Tiger's had that little move where his hands move away from his body as he takes the club away in the backswing.

He just doesn't have that same mystic that he used to have either. Almost like guys know they can play with him now. Of course, not all of them can and even the best ones can't play with him all the time, but when someone is playing good, they can play with him as Tiger hardly ever has his A game anymore. I predict Phil takes over the #1 spot in a few months. Phil continues to look better and better. Coincidence that he's with Butch now? I think not...

[Dave H]

I think Tiger should fire Hank. If I TW's general manager, I'd tell him he needs a new coach for new perspective, if nothing else. I don't know if Hank's a good coach or not, but clearly it's not working with him and Tiger right now.

[Divot Tool]

I don't think he should fire Haney nor do I think he will. Is Tiger's swing perfect? No. Does it need work? Yes. It does not mean he should abandon Haney's swing theory, one which has proved successful in the past. It would be a hasty decision cutting Hank loose, one which sadly hangs on a missed cut and 'less than extraordinary' performances given the circumstances in his life at the moment.

Tiger feels his swing is more efficient and consistent today than ever. In my opinion, under Haney's approach he contends. After winning the BMW Championship in 2009, Tiger praised Hank's tutelage.

"I feel that my overall plane and my swing and my release and how I play now is just so much more efficient. Bad shots aren't what they used to be, and that's what we were trying to get to. Anybody can play when they're hot, but it's how poor are your mis-hits, can you control them, and more importantly, can you fix it? . . .Overall I've gotten a better understanding of my swing over the years working with Hank. You hit a couple bad shots like I did at No. 1, how I over-hooked it there, and then immediately I fixed it, and then I hit a sweet little low fading 4-iron into the second hole. That's what you have to do all the time."

http://blogs.golf.com/presstent/2009...ger-woods.html


It is not uncommon to hear about the future of the Tiger/Hank relationship arise when Tiger doesn't dominate a tournament by 12 strokes or simply doesn’t win. This is not the first time nor will it be the last. At Quail Hollow, his heart and mind was not there. His ability to correct a swing tendency mid round, something Steve Williams has attested to is clearly missing. The old adage that golf is 90% mental illustrates that the game involves more than just clubface and ball instead, that the state of mind is the foremost premise of performance.

It's not fair to use Hank as the scapegoat for Tiger's driver woes. When Tiger wins, it's all Tiger: his god given talent, his mental toughness. . . the list goes on. When he loses, well oh. . . it's Hank's flawed swing theory. This reasoning is absurd.

[TigerWoodz]

It's not fair to use Hank as the scapegoat for Tiger's driver woes. When Tiger wins, it's all Tiger: his god given talent, his mental toughness. . . the list goes on. When he loses, well oh. . . it's Hank's flawed swing theory. This reasoning is absurd.

Good comment...

Surely Tiger would have better results 3 wood off the tee,extra club into the approach??? any thoughts on this attack of play?? i mean a 3 wood in the fairway is better than a driver in the woods...?

[motteler621]

first of all Tiger needs to get all his personal stuff fixed and behind him. Then he should fire Haney if his game is still lacking, not in the middle of all the crap hes going through right now, that would be too hasty and a unwise move to fix his game. If he didnt want to fire Haney before all this personaly crap then he shouldnt in the middle of dealing with it to improve his game.

[uppi]

Its funny I just got done watching highlights of the 1997 masters and Tiger's swing looks so natural. It was amazing watching him hit drives as far or father than phil does now (with old technology) and smoking it right down the pipe. He hit a NATURAL draw.

Back to the now. Can Tiger even HIT a draw anymore? All he has the balls to do are hit these p*$$% little weak cut shots with the driver. For those saying Tiger is still winning majors under Haney, he is doing it IN SPITE of Haney. Until he goes back to Butch or at least a coach that will work with the swing he has (or used to have) we will never again see him dominate tournaments and majors like he used to. Think about it, mid 30's should be his prime, he should still be winning majors by 10+ shots, but now he cant even make cuts. And when he is playing halfway decent, he cant finish (see PGA 2009). Haney is a terrible coach in my opinion. I am not saying he doesnt know things about the swing, but he is a terrible COACH. All you have to do is watch the haney project to figure that out. When it comes the the golf swing its his way or the highway. Its like his swing is the perfect swing and there is NO other way to do it but his. He took Tigers natural swing in 2004 and rather than work with the swing he already has and make some minor changes to it to improve some things like a good coach would, he completely changed it. And people can argue it all they want but Haney's swing is unnatural and forced for Tiger, so of course he's going to struggle with it. There is a reason Phil has improved of the tee as much as he has. Its because his swing was not completely changed by Butch. Rather small adjustments were made, like getting more width in this backswing and not overswinging. Unfortunately the sad thing is even if Tiger went crawling back to Butch, Haney has been f&$(($ his swing up for so long I dont know if Tiger can get back to were he once was. I dont think we will ever see his dominating performances we saw in the early 2000's ever again. Furthermore I am not sure he will even break Jack's major's record.

[Phil McGleno]

I don't think he should fire Haney nor do I think he will. Is Tiger's swing perfect? No. Does it need work? Yes. It does not mean he should abandon Haney's swing theory, one which has proved successful in the past.

It has not proven successful. His driving stats - even his GIR stats - are down and have been down since signing with Hank Haney. His short game and putting are much improved. Look at the stats - don't just look at his wins. He's winning recently (though not as often in majors) on grit, determination, a short game, putting, and by keeping driver in the bag whenever possible.

Tiger feels his swing is more efficient and consistent today than ever.

No he doesn't. Are you a newbie at parsing what Tiger says? "Two way miss" is as inconsistent as a golfer can be. He likes to TELL people he's more consistent as a way of talking himself up, but read between the lines, man.

"I feel that my overall plane and my swing and my release and how I play now is just so much more efficient. Bad shots aren't what they used to be, and that's what we were trying to get to. Anybody can play when they're hot, but it's how poor are your mis-hits, can you control them, and more importantly, can you fix it?

Nope, he can't. Hank can't. The more time he spends with Hank the worse it's going to be. His mis-hits are worse.

It is not uncommon to hear about the future of the Tiger/Hank relationship arise when Tiger doesn't dominate a tournament by 12 strokes or simply doesn’t win.

Go ahead - name the last tournament Tiger won by a sizable margin. Further evidence that his short game is keeping him in tournaments he doesn't deserve to win or finish top 10 in.

It's not fair to use Hank as the scapegoat for Tiger's driver woes. When Tiger wins, it's all Tiger: his god given talent, his mental toughness. . . the list goes on. When he loses, well oh. . . it's Hank's flawed swing theory. This reasoning is absurd.

No, it's Tiger's inability to have gotten rid of Hank Haney earlier. Tiger's responsible for his own swing and choices. He should have known Hank was a crackpot as soon as he had him taking the club way off plane and trying to loop it back under and time it all. Good luck, chump.

[uttexas]

Tiger's mental game has deteriorated more than his swing. He used to look like he was having fun out there. For the last five years, he's been a grumpy, scowling mess.

Here's a good comparison of 2001 vs 2007 Tiger's driver swing.


Here's 2010 Masters


Tiger's up and down head/body movements on the forward swing have gotten out of control.

[uttexas]

.....should he fire Haney. I'd say, yes. He needs to start again with a fresh outlook on life and golf.

[iacas]

Tiger's mental game has deteriorated more than his swing. He used to look like he was having fun out there.

It's easier to have fun when you're winning by 10 shots and the game feels natural to you. He has to try his darndest on every shot under Hank Haney.

We can play this game all day.

Tiger's up and down head/body movements on the forward swing have gotten out of control.

His up and down head movements aren't even on the short list of things he should fix, let alone at the top of the list. So what - he gets into "pouncing cat" and then jumps...

[jhawker23]

Everyone's talking about Tiger being distracted, maybe Hank's distracted peddling his 534th training aid...

[golf junkie]

This was exactly my thoughts.

His drives were a mess when he left Butch and Haney progressively worse, quicker. The good thing was, Tiger was such a strong mental player, losing the mental game right now-we get a good look at nothing but his shots-no clean up his strong mental game allowed him. Someone has to finally say it. So come on..I'm sure we have a healthy group of promoters on here. My point guys, Tiger is great. He did great in spite of them. He came to them-with a great game.