Attention all slicers!!

[SVTGolfer]

Yes and no. I realize a lot of it is mental, but the feel seems different to me. Like I said ive only had this new driver for about two weeks, so I still need to get used to it. When I say yes and no, the swing IS the same, however the set-up changes, therefore the impact seems to change. For all I know Im sub-consciously pulling the driver in towards me during my swing because Im not used to the extra couple inches and think Im going to mishit it. I need to grab a video camera and go figure out what Im doing now, that was different than before.

[Shanks A Million]

Well, my swing is NOT crap, I had a slice on my driver that I have now gotten out. i have been playing a year and my handicap at the beginning of the year was 12, and is dropping everytime I play as well. I consistently shoot in the mid 70's now. This is definitely my last post because you are RIGHT, You're right, you're right, there, I stroked your ego, HAPPY?

I'm not claiming to be right, I'm backing up Iacas and Harmon. These guys know their stuff. I'm trying to explain that what you're doing is going to hurt you in the end. I've tried it, I use to slice the ball too. 95% of us sliced the ball, and I'm sure even the pros here did. The point is, it's not a solution, it's a complication.

[iacas]

I am sure that most slicers come outside-in, and that must become inside-out to improve their shots. As a higher handicap, I have insight into why slicers do what we do; I've struggled with it for many years. Swinging inside-out is scary and counter-intuitive for a slicer because you're swinging in the direction you are trying to avoid.

It's not counter-intuitive. Most people simply don't know how to do it.

Heck theres a whole thread on this forum dedicated to Stack and Tilt, which what I've heard is garbage, but I've not tried it so I'm not going to knock it.

Yeah, you'll just call it "garbage." Pfffft.

You could also write to Michael Breed on the golf fix and explain to him(while you have a 7.5 handicap) he's a freakin idiot suggesting people do the split hand grip drill and the headcover under the arm drill to learn how to follow through and rotate the forearms. Go ahead and write Golf Digest and explain to them we don't need the inverted grip drill to get a feel on how the club should turn over at follow through.

Here's a simple truth: the best drawers of the golf ball hit the ball with an open clubface. Releasing the third accumulator (rolling the left wrist) adds very little power and a lot of timing. I can hit high draws all day while not "releasing" the club all day long because I know how to get the club to hit the ball from the inside.

And you must be new here - Michael Breed and some of the dumb things he's said has been talked about here in the past. Just because someone wins six majors (hello Nick Faldo) doesn't mean they know some facts like ball flight laws.

[Zeph]

I tried rolling the wrists, or "releasing" them, when fighting a slice. I got more distace and balls started going left instead. Did not take too long before I stopped doing it, since the timing it involved was impossible to get right every time. One shot straight left, the next a big hook, next a slice. At least with my slice it was usually the same ball flight most of the time.

I guess if you're really good you can keep the clubface perfectly square throughout the entire swing. I personally have found this to be difficult. For me, it's easier to rotate my wrists open a bit and return them to square. If you try to rotate the wrists at impact without first opening the club at some point, then yes, that would lead to horrific results.

What is easier:

1: Trying to keep the club face square to the plane through the swing. 2: Rolling the club face open and try to roll it back to where you want it during a split second of the downswing. A move so quick you can't see it and there are dozens of details that has to be right.

[chef35ca]

No, this is a quick fix, and it does more harm than good. 99.99% of slicers come over the top, the face is already closed to the target. It's all about bringing the club down on the inside, nothing more.

I come over the top pretty hard. It leads to everything from a slice to a vicious pull hook & every flight in between.

Some weeks i'll get the release closer to being right & have no issues. But if i'm tight or trying to hit things way too freaking hard, that things coming right over. & then it just snowballs. I've been meaning to fix it. I think this week i'll get my pro to look at what i'm doing. Hopefully he'll stop laughing long enough to give me some pointers.

[mattttt25]

Nice little argument...

I still say it could be a valid swing thought. I'm surprised the "pros" on this site don't mention swing thoughts much. For the OP, thinking about rotating his arms during the downswing may be correcting an issue he had. Doesn't mean he's actually doing it, don't remember any of us watching a video of his swing to prove one way or the other. As I regain my game, I follow and read Leadbetter religiously because his ideas gave me a game way back when. He often talks of swing thoughts, and on the surface, his advice and drills contradict the same fundamentals he is teaching. But there is a method there- what you tell your mind you're doing and what you're actually doing are two different things.

[Phil McGleno]

I still say it could be a valid swing thought. I'm surprised the "pros" on this site don't mention swing thoughts much.

Swing thoughts are one thing. Feeling that you're doing something like rolling your wrists is not a swing thought I'd ever give anyone. It's incorrect and if that's the feeling you've got, there are bigger issues at play.

[akgolfnut]

Isn't it all dependent on your grip? If you have a neutral or weak grip, I would think you would have to roll your wrists/forearms at impact to ge the ball square. Corey Pavin is a roller due to his weak grip. But I agree it is a timing issue, and for us amateurs, it would be awfully hard to perfect. If you have a strong grip, then there should be no need to rotate the forearm, unless you really want to hook it. Just my 2cents, I suck at this game, so what do I know.

[Shanks A Million]

Isn't it all dependent on your grip? If you have a neutral or weak grip, I would think you would have to roll your wrists/forearms at impact to ge the ball square. Corey Pavin is a roller due to his weak grip. But I agree it is a timing issue, and for us amateurs, it would be awfully hard to perfect. If you have a strong grip, then there should be no need to rotate the forearm, unless you really want to hook it. Just my 2cents, I suck at this game, so what do I know.

You notice the pros and low handicaps here have all agreed that the problem is not a clubface one? That's because most of us, in the 20+ years I, or Harmon, or any of these others have played or taught this game, we've seen more slices than a pizza parlor. And do you know what they all had in common with a bad Sylvester Stallone film? They were 'Over the Top.' The fix is not in the clubface, it's in the club path. It's only natural to swing over the top, and people don't want to believe they do it. Grip could come into play, but rolling the forearms is not ever a fix.

If the ball starts in any direction but well right, the slice is an over the top one. If he had said he was hitting a huge block fade, then we'd talk about face, but the fact is, that's usually not the case. It's safe to assume these guys know what they're talking about, they do it for a living, and they have had to pass some very rigorous tests to get where they are.

[Koth]

How does rotating your wrists lead to more problems down the line?

[sean_miller]

You're never going to find a consistently great player who doesn't have good hand action.

My ball striking seems to be at its best when I have relatively quiet wrists and hands.

[golfro]

lol. this whole thread is fairly comical to me. I'm baffled that there are people actually arguing for early wrist/hand turn. This is going against soem of the very basic fundamentals of golf.

Consider this. When it comes to consistency, the VERY small minute turns in your wrist can make or break your swing. Sure you've managed to get your wrist to a managable level to not slice but it adds for inconsistency down the road. What happens when you turn your wrist a microsecond too early or too late?

Whats more consistent, measuring your wrist movement every shot or learning how to swing your driver properly with a proper wrist/hand motion? Sorry but there are just WAY too many things that can go wrong within that microsecond of wrist movement for you to find any consistency on the long run.

Like otehrs have said, its a bandaid fix. and turn the damn TV off and stop watching those promotional quick fix drills. Fact of the matter is, the fundamentals of a good swing doesn't change. Guys like Furyk who have an odd swing still come back on the downswing the way they should.

It honestly baffles me how much time high h'cappers waste by buying new clubs (oh this driver will be perfect suited for my swing, oh this shaft is perfect for my swing) and doign silly little drills. Learn how to swing the club properly and practice towards that instead of coming up with one quick fix after another.

[Vance87]

My ball striking seems to be at its best when I have relatively quiet wrists and hands.

I've always thought that as well.

[jamo]

How does rotating your wrists lead to more problems down the line?

It is very hard to consistently time the small movements of the wrists correctly and consistently.

[Shanks A Million]

It is very hard to consistently time the small movements of the wrists correctly and consistently.

To add to that a bit, it's because the room for error is very minute. The whole idea of golf is to increase the room for error on each shot. Golf is not a game of perfection, it's a game of minimizing imperfection. You want the most room for error in a golf swing, and the fewest moving or active parts. Rolling the wrists, or any other small, timing dependent act is highly detrimental.

[nothing2prove]

i usually slice when i lean in during the downswing. other than that i hit it straight.

[Koth]

So I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do here, because my instructor, who is a 12 year Canadian PGA member and an assistant coach on the University golf team, told me that I needed to rotate my wrists in order to get rid of my slice. I mentioned my out-in swing path at the beginning of the lesson, and he said he was more concerned with my wrists than with the swing path. I was planning on going back to him for more lessons, but I really don't know what to do now.

I'm so confused!

[golfro]

there is a big difference between naturally letting your wrist roll over post impact and intentionally rolling it early to have club face squared at impact.

the latter is incorrect as its a bandaid for a swing error. the ideal proper swing would allow your club face to face the direction you're hitting at at impact. By intentionally rolling your wrist early to meet that, it doesn't fix the fact that your swing may be out-in, etc.
Naturally of course your follow through should have your wrist turn over post impact. I do understand that amateurs tend to have a hard time controlling their driver path and its not an easy things to get a solid impact with club face squared. But again, its a bandaid, not a permanent solution. So many things can go wrong at that split microsecond that you roll your wrist.