Distance study in this month of Golf Digest

[BostonSully]

I can't see the images on my browser, but I suspect you're adding evidence to the 250+ yard average and 20+ index with the bottom of the swing study you're conducting. Of what relevance is the bottom of the swing, when he's swinging a driver to hit a ball perched on a tee? If he's struggling with irons, as your post probably implies, wouldn't that just add more evidence that he can hit the ball off a tee, but struggles to hit GIR?

Thank you!

For me the driver was quickly my best friend and it seems like it always will be... But heres what happens I drive the ball 260yds.. Its a par 4 400 yard hole So 1 swing = 260 yds or 140 yards to go I grab my 9i duff ok 120 yards to go PW oooh off the back of the green 15 yards to go sw ok im still 15 feet away 2-3 putt my way to a solid ..... 7 Trip bogey.. I fail to see the corelation between driving and HCP beyond a certain point. For instance I always outdrive one of my friends were about equal in irons and he can outputt me any day. So were both on an even plain he I lose 1-2 strokes off teh Tee to him he gains em back on the green. Were both the same HCP with diff. skills whats so hard to believe?

[sean_miller]

Yes. Putting is easy. The driver is moving 120 mph and you have to hit a spot the size of a dime to hit it 300 yards. That takes a tremendous amount of skill.

I'd have to say that if putting is easy, hitting the ball past 250 yards with a driver is very easy. Sure, some people will never do it, but I also think snowboarding and playing soccer are easy - a lot of little children can do it - yet some people can't. They must really suck.

[GolfBear]

I tend to believe that's what appears in Wikipedia as well. I tend to believe that statistic is based on people registered in local or national golf unions.

I believe this is the source you're referring to:

http://www.rcga.org/_uploads/documen...sos%20Reid.pdf "Core" golfers are golfers that play at least eight rounds of golf/year or more not 28. It also says "among the highest" not THE highest.

I'd have to say that if putting is easy, hitting the ball past 250 yards with a driver is very easy. Sure, some people will never do it, but I also think snowboarding and playing soccer are easy - a lot of little children can do it - yet some people can't. They must really suck.

You're the gift that just keeps giving.

[sean_miller]

I believe this is the source you're referring to:

No, I'm referring to a quote in the most recent Golf Canada magazine I received in the mail. It's at home, so I can't check it now. The also mentioned that over 10 years ago, golf overtook hockey for participation in Canada. It's interesting how many professional hockey players Canada churns out, versus professional golfers. Yet the same quality of athlete is apparently participating regularly in golf? Weird.

http://www.rcga.org/subsites/NAGA/pd...eyFindings.pdf

[chilly]

So 1 swing = 260 yds or 140 yards to go

I think the part that's difficult to underdstand is that someone that can CONSISTENTLY hit a driver 260, in the fairway, wouldn't be able to hit a 9i. That's where the question comes when a higher handicapper says they average long drives. Doesn't make sense that a person can hit a 45" long club, at 110mph correctly but cannot do the same with a ~ 37" club at ~83mph. I can buy the short game thing, because I see it all the time when guys will blade chips back and forth across greens, but I don't know that I've ever seen a guy hit driver better then a 9i.

[sean_miller]

I think the part that's difficult to underdstand is that someone that can CONSISTENTLY hit a driver 260, in the fairway, wouldn't be able to hit a 9i. That's where the question comes when a higher handicapper says they average long drives. Doesn't make sense that a person can hit a 45" long club, at 110mph correctly but cannot do the same with a ~ 37" club at ~83mph. I can buy the short game thing, because I see it all the time when guys will blade chips back and forth across greens, but I don't know that I've ever seen a guy hit driver better then a 9i.

Where did he say his drives were ending up even remotely near the fairway?

I guess it's time bail on this "debate". Maybe my interest in sticking up for high handicappers who hit a long ball is somewhat personal. By about mid way through my second season of golf, I was at about a 20 and the only difference in my driving distance has been due to advances in driver and ball technology. Could I hit a long iron back then as far as I do now? No way, but maybe that's the true test of distance? How far can you hit 3-iron?

[chilly]

I guess I just made the inference when he referred to the driver his "best friend", to me that implies that he hits it with some distance and good accuracy and it's a "go to" club. If he doesn't hit the driver well, then I guess my post has no point.

[iacas]

Where did he say his drives were ending up even remotely near the fairway?

Somewhat irrelevant. If he's hitting it 260 he's hitting it somewhere near the sweet spot. The vast majority of people who can do that with a driver can do it with a 9I. Perhaps 5% of golfers who average bogey golf can hit the ball 250 on average. And 5% might be waaaaaaaay too high.

As for Canadian golfers sucking, it can't possibly have to do with the shorter season, can it? Nah... that'd be too logical. Stick up for 'em all you want, sean, but the simple reality is that while this guy may be the exception, the odds are steeply against that being the case. P.S. Seriously, another of these threads? SAM, knock it off. Just learn to ignore these kinds of threads. You get suckered in every time. I agree with sean that low point has little to do with hitting a driver. The driver's the one club you can get away with doing this on and a low point being behind the ball supports the case of a guy hitting his driver far but sucking with his irons. High launch, low spin - that's how you get the most distance, and that's what you get with a low point behind the ball with the driver. Not as easy to control, but it'll go.

[sean_miller]

Somewhat irrelevant. If he's hitting it 260 he's hitting it somewhere near the sweet spot. The vast majority of people who can do that with a driver can do it with a 9I. Perhaps 5% of golfers who average bogey golf can hit the ball 250 on average. And 5% might be waaaaaaaay too high.

I said my opinion - and perhaps even had an epiphany. I was a long hitting 20+ capper. But by the end of my 3rd year, I was around a 10 index. My membership in the 20+/250+ club was a relatively short one. PS. Are you suggesting that our terrible record in the Summer Olympics is related to our swimming pools and soccer fields being covered with ice and and snow for 8 months? Pish posh!!

[design]

I said my opinion - and perhaps even had an epiphany. I was a long hitting 20+ capper. But by the end of my 3rd year, I was around a 10 index. My membership in the 20+/250+ club was a relatively short one.

Sean, I don't believe anyone is saying it is impossible. Just highly unlikely.

I've been lurking this forum since I started golfing last May and my opinion has flip flopped a bit. This will probably be my last and only post on this subject. Like you, I was naturally a long hitter with my driver even from the beginning. I was the kid you would see on the range hitting a large bucket of balls with his driver 4 days a week. The only action my irons saw were when they were topping shots on the course. With my athletic background, swinging the driver at high speeds felt natural for me. I can honestly say I would hit the ball 260+ 9 out of 10 drives as a 20+ capper. (At the time I thought I was much closer to 300+, but thats a different story). This does not mean I was hitting fairways, however I was making contact close enough to the sweet spot to produce this distance every single shot. I always felt personally attacked when I read these posts, specifically those from Shanks, however I've reached the point where I realize why there is so much skepticism. Now that my game has begun to improve (as have the quality of my playing partners), I've realized how rare it is for even low handicappers to be able to produce a 260+ yard drive every single time. I would venture to guess my average drive over the past two months is in the 275-285 range. That being said, even the "long hitters" at my club are a good 30-40 yards behind me most of the time. I've realized that if the "long guys" are hitting it 245-255 on average, then Shanks must be onto something with his assessment on driving distance. ps: perhaps there is a correlation with distance and rate of improvement? We've both dropped to similar handicaps in short periods of time and are claiming similar distance numbers.

[BostonSully]

Sigh*

ITs not that I CANT hit my 9iron I lack the Discipline to put together a solid hole. I birdied a par4 at George Wright this summer in a tournament and when I focus I am good. Im a high handicap because Im a rec golfer maybe 1-2x a week range or course. I also drink and smoke while I play.

YOu guys are starting to make me want to take this serious. Im going to go straight just find out my hcp and shut you guys up. I put 25 because Idk what I really am point is I can birdie a par4 and then quad bogey a par4 afterwards im just inconsistent so I put a high hcp.

[Fat Slice]

Well, there's one.

Nope, Shanks, not yet. He said 250 average, so we're still looking for the 275 average 20 capper (I dropped the 300 request).

[GolfBear]

I found this article to be very interesting:
http://www.thegolfchannel.com/equipm...ccuracy-34802/

[bwdial]

I found this article to be very interesting:

I bookmarked that page for future reference.

[kafka01]

When i read Distance & Study & Taylormade in one sentence i immediately think of a cigarette company funding a cancer study, now why is that?

Taylormade all seems about distance and ignoring straight or accurate. It´s pretty much the same with irons, compared to a couple decades ago. Nothing really changed in the technology, but somehow they got magically longer - sure, if you bend them down, of course they are longer, but you could have the same effect if you bend down your 20 year old iron set. The same is happening with drivers - every year (in Taylormade´s case every 3 month) they seem to get longer according to their ads, but they basically achieve this by adding shaft length. Every driver you can find on Taylormades page in length is about 45 inches or longer. Most of the guys on tour play a driver that is below 45 inches, even Phil might figure it out at some point that shorter isnt actually harm you that much if you can keep the ball more in play.

I wonder when they finally pushed the limits on distance if they will come up with a study that shows that accuracy has gone down the drain, and that you need the newest driver models who is far more accurate the todays models but "a bit shorter" (oh and btw. the new driver has a 43 inch shaft)........

[BostonSully]

Nope, Shanks, not yet. He said 250 average, so we're still looking for the 275 average 20 capper (I dropped the 300 request).

Yes a 300yd fairway driving average 20capper would be hard to believe... 300yds is alot for tour pro's. Ive smacked a few out that far but its not an average for sure... Though I wish it was

[ghalfaire]

I finally found the "article". It is an insert, a small one, on page 48. It sure does leave a lot unsaid and not sure what you can conclude from all of this. But I found it strange that the efficiency of the ball strike (ratio of average distance to optimal distance) with the driver was pretty much the same for all the handicap groups, ~95%. I would have thought the lower handicap golfers would hit the sweet spot significantly more often than the higher handicap golfers. Even in the 6 iron part of the study the efficiency of strike was only 4% less for the highest handicap group compared to the scratch golfers. I would not have expected that as I always assumed the the scratch golfer consistently hit the sweet spot much more often than high handicap golfers. So I would conclude from this study that the the transfer of energy from club to ball isn't any better for a scratch golfer than one with a 25+ handicap and that someone has to do to become a scratch golfer is to increase their swing speed.

OK so the above conclusion was only to point out that one needs to be cautious in how statistics are interpreted. I do think the above question is unanswered, at least I don't know the answer to the conclusion that scratch golfers are no better than higher handicap golfers at hitting the sweet spot. I am also a little cautious about data that was developed and "filtered" by someone with a stake in the game, like a club manufacture for instance.

[westcyderydin]

its one thing to carry the ball 300 yards, but its not that big of a deal for a total distance of 300 yards. but then if you get into a players average distance i think that would almost always be skewed on the high end. but if you are on a 400 yard hole and you hit it to the 100 yard marker then its not hard to notice hey i just hit a 300 yard drive. not that it really matters tho.

the thing that amazes me more than people who drive the ball 300 yds plus is the old guys who hit a wood at 150 yards and hit it almost as close as i hit my 9 iron. it gets me to think how awsome it would be to be able to hit my woods and long irons as accurately as they do...