Improving scrambling = Improving index

[TourSpoon]

I disagree, and here's why. I'll use myself as an example. I'm down to scratch now (haven't changed my hdcp here yet), yet I average only 10 GIR per round. That means I have to scramble 8 times each and every round. If my up and down percentage was only 25% that means I have 6 bogies on my card. Fortunately, I have worked like crazy on those shots around the green to where I'm now around 60%. That means only 3 bogies.

Exactly, and if you have a day when your short irons are off, you can still play, but if you have a day when the short game is off, then you are just going to have a bad day. I remember talking to a potential Tour player (who eventually played a season) who told me that the difference out there was the guys who could get it up and down. The next tournament I went to I noticed that most of the guys from tee to green where very similar, but the difference was in the short game. Those 1 or 2 shots at their level translate to about 6 shots at my level meaning that my improvement opportunity is saving par.

One thing that I try to do every time I practice is to hit out of the bunker and vary the shots. I always start with putting and end with putting and hit a lot of putts from 5 feet. Chipping is usually done with my club of choice (54) and practiced until I hole a few. My philosophy is that any time put into the short game will pay off with a more confident swing knowing that I can get up and down.

[Gerald]

According to my stats, I am only scrambling at around 20%, but I reckon that from a reasonable lie around the green I can get it to six feet or less about 60% of the time. Doesn't matter, though, if it still typically takes you two jabs from there.

For what it is worth, Dave Pelz says from 6 ft only 40%-50% putts are made ..... which would mean that if you would be able to get about 6 ft in 60% of your scrambling approaches .... you would only expect about 25%-30% saves...... to really raise your percentage, you need to be within about 3-4 ft. !

My personal experience is that 5-7 ft putts needing to be made for saving par are mostly missed ! (it feels like it is almost easier to make a 10 ft. putt then such a little testing putt of about 4 ft).

[anthonykim3]

i think it all matters for handicap a 12-20 handicaper will probably improve more by hitting more gir , but when you get down to the 5-0 short game is huge , and i know for me all year i can just add 39 on to the amount of putts i take and thats my score or with in 1 stroke everytime ! , so when i have 28 putts thats a 67 , but when i shit the bed with 33 thats a 72.

im a little better than scratch +0.9 and i hit 12 / 18 gir or 66% and my scrambling avg for the year is 55% so i make ether 2 or 3 bogies a round , if i could get my scrambling up to 65% and only make 2 bogies around i could probably get to a +2 with out any improvement on my full swing

so in the end i agree , improving scrambling = improving index ,always! but if i was a 20 handicapper i would try and learn to strike the ball first

[Paradox]

My time to disagree ......

you're just misunderstanding me is all. I am NOT disagreeing that a better short game will lower the handicap. I'm just disagreeing with the fact that so many beginners get the idea that if they can chip and putt, they'll have good scores. I think its just kind of crazy to think someone who has a hard time striking the ball to begin with is going to somehow make great contact when chipping and get close enough to the green to up and down 3 out of 5 times. The reason I say that is because 75% of the time their approach shot is gonna be so far off that getting up and down is just not a real possibility.

What I am saying is that the two are dependent upon each other . If you're not getting close enough to get up and down, then going to a practice green and putting your ball 10 yards off the edge isn't gonna do you any good because you're realistically gonna be in that position 10-15% of the time during a round. I think I am maybe just looking at this in terms of yeah, getting better at any part of the game will lower your handicap. Hitting better drives will produce lower scores, hitting better irons will produce lower scores, better putting will produce lower scores, better trouble shots will produce lower scores. There is no miracle to becoming scratch.

[majorchamp]

Exactly, and if you have a day when your short irons are off, you can still play, but if you have a day when the short game is off, then you are just going to have a bad day. I remember talking to a potential Tour player (who eventually played a season) who told me that the difference out there was the guys who could get it up and down. The next tournament I went to I noticed that most of the guys from tee to green where very similar, but the difference was in the short game. Those 1 or 2 shots at their level translate to about 6 shots at my level meaning that my improvement opportunity is saving par.

I played in the FCWT Tournament at Kiawah Island, Ocean Course that Hunter Mahan played in as well (and Won). What I remember of his game back then was 10 foot putts were almost automatic. I got 6th in the tournament, and the guys who were 2nd, 3rd, etc.. I can promise didn't hit the ball much better or worse then Hunter, when you watch any tour player, most of them hit it very similar. Accurate, some have better weeks then others, but often the guy who hoists the trophy on Sunday is the guy who has a solid mix of fairways/greens and not many putts.

Rarely will you see the guy who hits 15 greens in 72 holes and goes on to win the tournament. That is why with an awesome short game, you have to have a relatively solid long game. There are MORE tour players that I bet hit higher percentages of greens/fairways in tournaments then their playing partners, yet get 20th place because they simply weren't making putts or getting up/down when necessary. For me personally, often if my long game sucked, my short game prospered..and vice versa. Always remember, a 10 foot putt is worth as much as a 300 yard drive.

[bunkerputt]

Two reasons why the average scratch player is so good at scrabling is that they get these aproaches really close and they putt about anything within 5-6 ft.

Pros make 50% of their 6 footers. Their scrambling percentage is higher than that, which means they're getting them inside 6 feet. Also, something to consider not already mentioned.... Consistent striking is THE key to a good short game. If you don't hit it the same place on the club face every time, you can't develop a feel for distance because they are constantly changing. The spin isn't predictable and the distances are completely off from swing to swing. This is why the lie is so important to pros. They know, in a bad lie, they can't predict how hard to hit it and how much spin it will come out with. Working on your ballstriking in the full swing carries over to your striking in the short game. So I would argue that improving striking for higher handicappers improves your score partly because you are striking better and partly because it carries over into your short game. But Paradox pretty much hit the nail on the head. There are a lot of parts to a golf game and they all have to be good to score low.

[melchior]

The problem that I'm seeing in the debate here is that a lot of people are taking pro averages and looking at them.

Think about it this way: if the differences between 4th and 40th in a PGA tour event is the short game, then they *already have their long game figured out*. They got to where they were by hitting the ball long and pure; then from there they can work on their short game.

Taking me as an example: Last year was bad (but fun). I don't care if I had the best <75 yd game ever, if it took me 5 shots to get to that <75 yd distance then I'm still trying to get up and down for a double (on a par 5). Then look at pros: where do most of their scores come from (or how Tiger won event after event after event in early 2000s): doing well on Par 5s. You get the long game in order so you have an extremely short par 3 hole (essentially); either from 125 or on the green (if they could make it there in two). Getting to the point where you *can* scramble is the biggest challenge.

Besides, if you have proper fundamentals in your full swing, your short game/partial swings will fall in line.

[Harmonious]

The OP started the thread by asking for drills to improve his scrambling. His example used a mid-handicap level of 10-12. Sure, for people who can't hit the ball, it really doesn't matter. But I assume that a 10-12 handicap player can hit near the green in regulation most of the time. For that level of golfer, the short game is way to lower his score the quickest.

[Leftygolfer]

Here is my game:

I use 3 balls and go to a different spot every time. I keep score on all three balls to keep it moving, holing out is a birdie, par is up and in, and so on. I putt everything out as I am playing a match and keep score.

I agree a big deal in the short game is hitting it is the same place on the club. I think a good short game bleeds into your long game. Golf is a game of momentum as every sport is. Saving a par after a poor shot into the green can set up the next tee shot. I know I've hit many bad ones after missing a short putt. If you got a short game you know you can score even if your swing is missing. I was reading somewhere an LPGA girl (random round) shot 68 and only hit 6 greens. If you hit 9 greens on average you should be close to scratch with a decent short game.

But long game bleeds into short game just the same. WHen you are hitting good shots, your missed greens are easy. When your fighting a hook and hit a really bad one, the chances of making a par from that spot are slim (20 yards right, over a bunker, pin right, I know that spot).

[Gerald]

The OP started the thread by asking for drills to improve his scrambling. His example used a mid-handicap level of 10-12. Sure, for people who can't hit the ball, it really doesn't matter. But I assume that a 10-12 handicap player can hit near the green in regulation most of the time. For that level of golfer, the short game is way to lower his score the quickest.

Yep that is kind of the idea ..... inside 170 yds, I will hit most targets, but not accurate enough....... 15 yds from the pin is just too much, to make a par for sure...... I got to about 7-8 hc by improving my 5 - 8 iron play, but I still have to work for most pars....... I am still not hitting enough GIR to get to a low single hc....... I can work like hell to get maybe closer with my approaches, but I feel it is wise to invest the time in my scrambling...... putting is not really my problem, but to make a sure par from off the green I need to get the chips and pitches within let's say 3-4 ft. from the hole ..... it is going to take lots of hours and I have read some nice tips.

I am going to work on these ....... and hopefully reach hc 5 within a year ...... orso.