Deep hands vs steep hands short video comparison

[Tiger Spuds]

I hit draws and fades using the 'new' ballflight laws. Yes, for a fade, the face is slightly closed to the target, but it's still open relative to your swingpath . That's my understanding of it at least. Fades and Draws don't differ much in height for me, but I could be doing it wrong.

[atrapasuenos]

IMO, at the top of the backswing the guy on the right "looks" better but the downswing of the guy in the left looks better, plus the trajectory the ball starts it's awesome.

Cheers!

[iacas]

Fades don't necessarily go higher or lower.

If you're aimed at a line parallel left of the target (like you're supposed to be), then a push-draw will go higher than a pull-fade. A push-fade will go the same height as a push-draw, and a pull-draw will go the same height as a pull-fade.

The only thing that can change what I've just said is how much the handle is leaning forward, and that's why most people who hit fades hit it higher - because they wipe across the ball and flip.

[MJP]

Why are we supposed to be aimed parallel left of the target? I always just aim at the target. I think I am misunderstanding what you mean by that.

[iacas]

Why are we supposed to be aimed parallel left of the target? I always just aim at the target. I think I am misunderstanding what you mean by that.

Everyone's alignment is slightly different, but a truly "neutral" stance would be parallel left of the target because we're standing beside the ball, not behind it or on a line with it.

Neutral: Stance line -> || <- Target Line Closed (or what you're suggesting): Stance line -> /| <- Target Line

[MJP]

Ah okay. So a neutral stance would be where the stance line is roughly 1 yard to the left (for right handed) of the target line. Gotcha.

[iacas]

Ah okay. So a neutral stance would be where the stance line is roughly 1 yard to the left (for right handed) of the target line. Gotcha.

Yes, but do this as an experiment. Hold your right arm out and put your thumb over a target 200 yards away.

Now hold your left arm out, parallel to your right arm, and put your left thumb up. Look at how far left that "feels" at 200 yards even though it's parallel left. Now, that's not a perfect representation because your eyes in the golf stance are not between your two thumbs, but it's still an unsettling feeling and does a good job of illustrating how far left "parallel" can actually feel. This is why many people who feel like they're aiming at the target are REALLY closed... they probably need to feel like they're aiming 40 yards left of the target.

[Quinn07]

Can you somewhat relate deep hand and steep hands to one plane and two plane golf swings? Looking at those videos it seems like the guy on the left looks like Kuchar who in the last couple of weeks has stated that he has changed his swing to have more of a one plane swing. The guy on the right looks like his has a more two plane swing. Am I totally off base here?

[MJP]

Yes, but do this as an experiment. Hold your right arm out and put your thumb over a target 200 yards away.

When you have say an average approach distance (between 125-175 lets say), how far left of target line do you feel your stance is? I say feel because if you truly were parallel then it would only be ~1y left of the target line.

[MJP]

Can you somewhat relate deep hand and steep hands to one plane and two plane golf swings? Looking at those videos it seems like the guy on the left looks like Kuchar who in the last couple of weeks has stated that he has changed his swing to have more of a one plane swing. The guy on the right looks like his has a more two plane swing. Am I totally off base here?

That's pretty close to what I was thinking when I made the thread. Deep hands are more 1 plane and steeper hands are 2 plane. The guy on the left has the positioning I've been working on in the mirror at P4. The guy on the right is inbetween my old swing and a one plane swing. I was very two planed and it wasn't consistent at all. Yeah, I know I am going to pull it. Yeah, I know I am going to fade it. But I don't know consisntely how much I will pull it or how much it will curve left to right with that swing.

Plus, the steeper swing meant over swinging for me (since I have a pretty decent amount of wristcock). I was almost always tipping over parallel.

[majorchamp]

To be fair, the guy on the right is still

yea, my biggest pet peeve is people uploading footage of 2 second golf swings...barely gives you time to digest their setup, their swing, etc... wish they implemented a slow motion version. maybe I will download the video, slow it down, and re-upload.

[iacas]

yea, my biggest pet peeve is people uploading footage of 2 second golf swings...barely gives you time to digest their setup, their swing, etc... wish they implemented a slow motion version. maybe I will download the video, slow it down, and re-upload.

Don't bother. It won't be useful. 30 FPS, low shutter speed, and the view isn't even useful as neither is truly DTL.

[MJP]

The point of the video was simply to show ball flight (the start of it anyway) as they relate to positiong at the top. Obviously this is a terrible video for anything else.

[Zeph]

The point of the video was simply to show ball flight (the start of it anyway) as they relate to positiong at the top. Obviously this is a terrible video for anything else.

Too bad your swing path only factors 0-20% of the initial direction of the ball flight. I could've swung with the hand path of the left swing and have the ball start out like the one on the right, and vice versa. Only you really can do with such a video is give a vague impression of the differences on deep vs steep hand path. High speed and slow motion video from the proper angle, filmed once at the time and merged together would be a lot better. You can still just put up a video of Charlie Wi and Tiger Woods (pre Foley) to see the same thing.

From your post, it seems like you believe in the old ball flight laws. The clubface dictates 80-100% the starting direction of the ball. 0-20% is dictated by the swing path. Only in the extreme differences between CFA and SPA may the ball perhaps start around 20% closer to the SPA. In most shots, which curve 0 to 20 yards, the percentage is much lower.

[MJP]

I understand that. It's just I find it much harder to hit a push without deep hands. It's always a pull. Opening the club face at address and being flatter at the top has helped me not pull shots. Simple as that. I understand the ball flight laws about as well as I could at this point. Not that they are hard to understand or anything.