Hands: the key to straight shots

[O.B. Right]

The hands can "save" a shot and The Golfing Machine says you need a pair of "educated hands" to play good golf, but if all your instructor talks about are your hands and you're still shooting 90 then as "awesome" as he may be you need to look elsewhere.

Yeah - but, dude, I was shooting in the 150's only 2 months ago . . .

Anyway, the idea he gets across is not to "save" anything with your hands - or do anything unnatural at all. Basically he says "relax, it's like throwing a ball, etc". And yes he has made me throw golf balls down the range (I think for his own enjoyment, tho .. ha ha). The hand action he teaches is a smooth whipping sort of motion through the hitting area (not flipping! which I do all the time . .but whipping! which I struggle mightily to do). The concept he is trying to teach me, basically, is that the golf swing is a natural motion and I already know how to do it well . .if I could only not screw myself up by thinking about it or trying to do too much. Oh yeah . .he also always says (after I hit a bad one) "you can't hit a shot with stone hands!" But, really, I'm doing him a disservice trying to explain his method when I can't even do it myself . .I can only tell you what he tells me . .but since you don't see me hitting, you can't be sure if that's good advice or not . . . I'm not saying he's Sean Foley . . but trust me . .he knows what he's talking about (I dont, tho, so that might be confusing you).

[Shanks A Million]

I'm not saying he's Sean Foley . . but trust me . .he knows what he's talking about (I dont, tho, so that might be confusing you).

I don't think he does. Golf instructors love to use terms that mean nothing. There is a machine that measures grip pressure at some performance institute I heard about, and they were using it to measure grip pressure for a bunch of local pros. Apparently, some tour pro (one of the best ballstrikers on tour) came in and tried it. His grip pressure was significantly higher than the local pros.

The old myths, again, are false. Grip pressure, stance, grip itself, none of that means that much. You've got a certain tolerance that you should be in, but aside from that, it's not much of an issue. There are plenty of high handicaps with great setups, but there are also plenty of tour pros with bad ones. The only thing that matters is that you have the most room for error on the swing. My hands are remarkably stiff on the club, and I hold onto it hard through impact, yet hit the ball decently well. I've got plenty of friends who use the old "baby bird" method and flip the crap out of it.

[walk18]

I think the thread title is the problem here. Of course hands are important, they're the things holding onto the club but that's not the "key" to straight shots. The swing path and where your weight is at impact are big factors in what determines where the shot goes. If those are done properly, the hands are simply along for the ride. If the swing is off, you might be able to save the shot occasionally with a quick flip but it's not something that can be done consistently.

[O.B. Right]

I don't think he does. Golf instructors love to use terms that mean nothing. There is a machine that measures grip pressure at some performance institute I heard about, and they were using it to measure grip pressure for a bunch of local pros. Apparently, some tour pro (one of the best ballstrikers on tour) came in and tried it. His grip pressure was significantly higher than the local pros.

You could be right but I feel it's more likely my fault for not explaining it right. He never told me to lighten up my grip. He actually doesn't even have a word for this hand motion . . he makes a swoosh noise . .that's as technical as he gets about it. He does tell me repeatedly to relax and loosen up (whole body . .not just hands).

Anyway . .I can only judge his teaching skill by my progress and everybody I know is amazed at the transformation . . .I'd been a "max capping, chronic slicer of the golf ball" for years until I started seeing this guy.

[saevel25]

It is a bad thing to be tense over the ball. My uncle looks like he's rigid like crazy at address, but he does have a very fluid swing and hits it pretty well. I think if he can just be more relaxed he will score better because the tension doesn't block his swing from functioning. Thats were a waggle is good, i do find a waggle or something of that level does help relieve tension. I sometimes take a deep breath and exhale right before swinging. When you sigh, let out a deep breath it is a relaxing reaction, so your mind picks up on that as well.

[CalBoomer]

I find the whole premise at the start of this thread preposterous. At any reasonable swing speed, the amount of time that the hands could do anything to affect something as delicate as the angle of the club face has to be minuscule. The idea of being able to also sense and react by changing the hands in that minuscule time frame is really a non-starter. Trying to do something with your hands, beyond holding on to the club, usually just screws up shots.

[O.B. Right]

Found this video of Sam Snead while searching for things to help me explain this "hand action" thing that my instructor is so in love with . . .

This is pretty much what I'm talking about . . . . . it could almost be an excerpt from one of my lessons (except my lessons are in color)

[mattttt25]

It will be interesting to see the responses after that video. Like much of golf and the dialog on this site, communication is our enemy. I knew what you were saying. Is it proper to say the hands are the key? I won't argue that point, but maybe its better to say that you need loose wrists, little tension, and must snap the club through impact. I struggle with this same thought- I look at all these videos and pictures and focus on the positions. I then try to hit every position (about a hundred of them) while still trying to have a fluid swing. We all know it doesn't work.

[Zeph]

Sam is really talking about lag and the release in the way Nicklaus does. Holding the flying wedge, not releasing things early, and straight arms on the follow through.

The hands should not do a whole lot in the golf swing. The problem is that a lot of us do stuff with the hands that we don't want to do, which results in casting and rolling. A good shot is a result of the hands not doing a whole lot, but it is difficult to achieve when you have ingrained the feeling of doing something for many years.

[Easy]

Another huge plus 1. This little "tip" screwed me up good. "Passive arms" do not work for me.

Really?

Ask a bunch of instructors around the joint and see if they agree. I doubt it.

[CalBoomer]

Found this video of Sam Snead while searching for things to help me explain this "hand action" thing that my instructor is so in love with . . .

I do not think what Snead is talking about has anything to do with squaring up the clubface at the time of contact. He is talking about "whipping" the club face through the ball at release to increase speed and distance. Nobody would advocate "dead hands"--which I would equate with limited release--for most full swings. As for Snead's advice, I doubt it is very good for amateurs and would likely result in lots of bad hooks. He was a phenomenal athlete who did a lot of things unconsciously--almost the exact opposite of Ben Hogan--and I doubt he would have made a very good golf instructor.

[Deryck Griffith]

Getting into a handsy discussion could be very dangerous. As already mentioned, trying to do to much with the hands and can lead to bad habits. Personally throughout my swing, my hands feel VERY calm and relaxed on the back swing (all I focus on is naturally hinging them) and through impact, I honestly don't feel like they are doing "much" in terms terms of rolling or releasing, etc. As long as I am brining the club down in the slot or on the correct "path," my hands pretty much go into automatic mode.

If you ask some of the best strikers of the ball, they will tell you that during the moment of impat, they probably don't "feel" or focus on what their hands are doing. They more feel the core of their body moving toward the target and they feel or "control" the path of their swing. Onthe PGA tour, a perfect example of someone who doesn't do much their hands is Steve Stricker. His hands incredibly hinge naturally on the way back and after that, they go into auto mode. Only the path of the swing (not the hands) turns the ball. Everyone who thinks hand matter "that much" should watch Steve's swing in slow motion.

Actually, here is a great link

[O.B. Right]

Getting into a handsy discussion could be very dangerous. As already mentioned, trying to do to much with the hands and can lead to bad habits. Personally throughout my swing, my hands feel VERY calm and relaxed on the back swing (all I focus on is naturally hinging them) and through impact, I honestly don't feel like they are doing "much" in terms terms of rolling or releasing, etc. As long as I am brining the club down in the slot or on the correct "path," my hands pretty much go into automatic mode.

I'm not trying to be argumentative .. but I think we actually agree here. I agree with you that the hands should act naturally, be relaxed and not "do much" (but also not completely passive). I also happen to be of the opinion that it is extremely important that your hands be as I just described. You can say the word "hands" without talking about getting "handsy".

[bunkerputt]

If you ask some of the best strikers of the ball, they will tell you that during the moment of impat, they probably don't "feel" or focus on what their hands are doing. They more feel the core of their body moving toward the target and they feel or "control" the path of their swing. Onthe PGA tour, a perfect example of someone who doesn't do much their hands is Steve Stricker. His hands incredibly hinge naturally on the way back and after that, they go into auto mode. Only the path of the swing (not the hands) turns the ball. Everyone who thinks hand matter "that much" should watch Steve's swing in slow motion.

I agree with you that the hands aren't moving much, but I think that's a completely different thing from the hands not "doing" much. My point in this thread wasn't an argument for a handsy action at the expense of proper body motion, but that the hands of all body parts give the largest amount of feedback throughout the swing that your body has of a square clubface. This feedback is completely necessary to be able to drive the body properly and maintain a square-to-the-path clubface.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

I think this issue become clearer by thinking of a whip. The part of the whip about a foot from the end, is like the hands in a golf swing. When the business part of the stroke happens - the "crack" - that portion of the whip is heavily involved, allowing the tip end to rotate through at incredible speed. But that part of the whip isn't "doing" anything, and neither is any of the whip. It's all just reacting to the swing set in motion by the person holding the far end. It's "along for the ride".

The hands have to drive the club through impact, or it will be late and remain open. But in order to do it with perfect timing, they should be relaxed and passive like that inanimate bit of the whip. Their movement, which is very important, works best when it occurs as a natural reaction to the "drivers" of the swing: the hips and shoulders.

-Andrew

[Shanks A Million]

The hands have to drive the club through impact, or it will be late and remain open.

You can find people who's hands don't unhinge in time, and hit the ball with that open face, they're called tour pros. Most amatuers are well, well too early to unhinge, and their clubface is square or even shut at impact, and they are coming from the outside in, causing a slice. I can't think of anyone I've seen release the club too late; it's nearly impossible.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

You can find people who's hands don't unhinge in time, and hit the ball with that open face, they're called tour pros. Most amatuers are well, well too early to unhinge, and their clubface is square or even shut at impact, and they are coming from the outside in, causing a slice. I can't think of anyone I've seen release the club too late; it's nearly impossible.

Very slightly open face = slight push-fade = some tour pros play this shot.

Significantly open face = severe push-slice = what happens to me when my hand tension (for lack of a better term) holds off the club too much. Flipping the club is apparently very common. But just because that's a common mistake, doesn't mean the opposite extreme is correct. The opposite extreme produces very bad shots. -Andrew

[Fat Slice]

I keep my hands quiet best I can, otherwise the feedback loop from my swing is useless. I find a tight grip encourages busy hands and medium pressure is best. I try and keep my left wrist flat as that seems to send a signal for
The hands to stay still - if I try working the wrist the hands stard kneading dough.

OB - did you really shoot 150 year after year?