Hands: the key to straight shots

[Shanks A Million]

Very slightly open face = slight push-fade = some tour pros play this shot.

Pretty much wrong on all counts. A slightly open face is common among players who draw the ball. Almost no one really leaves the face open and has their hands too far forward. A severely open face with the hands well forward at impact usually is the sign of a snap-hooker. Flipping is not just common, it's pretty much universal among higher handicaps, and a flip usually means an over the top shut face, which means a slice. The misconception remains untrue, open faces do not equal fades, in fact, often the opposite.

[iacas]

Pretty much wrong on all counts.

Not really, no.

A slightly open face is common among players who draw the ball.

As well as those who play a push fade. Do you know how many average amateurs draw the ball with an open face? I'm going to guess it's around 2%, and I'm trying to be generous. It's probably 1% or so.

Almost no one really leaves the face open and has their hands too far forward. A severely open face with the hands well forward at impact usually is the sign of a snap-hooker.

How in the heck are going to snap hook the ball with a "severely open face"? Snap hooks are straight hooks or pull-hooks. What's the hand position have to do with anything here, really?

It's one thing to be rude with "pretty much wrong on all counts" but then to be wrong in your correction is another thing entirely.

The misconception remains untrue, open faces do not equal fades, in fact, often the opposite.

That's wrong, too, but mostly because it's too general. A face open to the path will obviously always produce a fade or a slice, we all know that. But most slicers hit the ball with a face that's square to the target and open to the path, but you have to consider where their body is aimed and specify what things are relative to.

FWIW I can hit a pull-fade or a straight-fade with a face slightly open to the target, too - path accounts for SOME of the ball's starting path, after all. Lots of amateurs hit "push slices" - they just aim so far left with their stance that, relative to the target, the shot is a pull-slice or a straight-slice, but the face is open to their stance AND the path. SAM, I'm disappointed with your post.

[whatwhatwhat]

Pretty much wrong on all counts. A slightly open face is common among players who draw the ball. Almost no one really leaves the face open and has their hands too far forward. A severely open face with the hands well forward at impact usually is the sign of a snap-hooker. Flipping is not just common, it's pretty much universal among higher handicaps, and a flip usually means an over the top shut face, which means a slice. The misconception remains untrue, open faces do not equal fades, in fact, often the opposite.

Yeah.......on opposite day.....

[iacas]

Yeah.......on opposite day.....

Drats, is Opposite Day today? Though if it was, would you have to answer "no" to that question? You couldn't ever get a "yes" to that question... Hmmm...

Not everything he said is exactly wrong, but more than half or so, sure.

[sean_miller]

I have a swing theory - what if golf pros and biomechanical engineers could design a machine to hold a golf club in mid air. The club would swing like the Iron Byron, but in such a way that was customized for the player in question. Thats where the golf pro comes in. After showing the player the desired club action and body actions, they program the machine.

Get the player to grip the club and hit "start". As the club is slowly taken through the desired movements, all the player's movements (feet, legs, hips, torso, shoulders, arms, hands, head) become synchronized and eventually become natural or he dies trying. Win win.

[The Recreational Golfer]

As for the hands, the more I let my swing lead my hands into the ball, the better I hit the it. The more I try to lead the club into the ball with my hands, the more erratically I hit it.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

Almost no one really leaves the face open and has their hands too far forward.

I guess iacas already refuted this post, but to the above, I have to say: I DO. Not every swing, just sometimes. Occasionally my timing is poor in the other direction (don't hold the wedge, club "flips" a little). But I promise you I do regularly miss shots right by holding off the club too much. And I suck at this game. Almost as far from tour pro as can be.

And "flipping is not just common, it's pretty much universal"? Give me a break. Nothing's universal, especially golf swing attributes. -Andrew

[iacas]

And "flipping is not just common, it's pretty much universal"? Give me a break. Nothing's universal, especially golf swing attributes.

Actually that was one of the few things he got right in that post. The vast, huge majority of amateurs flip. "Pretty much" doesn't mean "all" or "100.0%".

[Shanks A Million]

SAM, I'm disappointed with your entire post.

Ha, don't know what to say. This is stuff you taught me, maybe I've moved too far in the other direction. To me, a snap hook starts well right, then moves well left. I leave the face open, but draw the ball. Back when I had bad hooks, my face was clearly open at impact on the videos, but the club was so severely under plane, moving from inside out, that it started right and went left.

So, let me say that my post was meant in a general sense. Very few slicers really leave the face severely open. Some may leave it a bit open, sure, but many don't. Probably more slicers have a shut face or square face. I was wrong to draw such a firm conclusion from it, but I was not wrong to say that that was a general rule. How often do you see a slicer trying, in vain of course, to "let the club release" and "shut the face". It usually just makes it worse.

[iacas]

Ha, don't know what to say. This is stuff you taught me

I don't see how that's true...

To me, a snap hook starts well right, then moves well left.

That's not a snap hook. A snap hook starts fairly straight and dives left hard and fast. A ball that started "well right" and moved "well left" sounds like a playable shot (just not in a corridor of trees around a tee, perhaps). Casper hit a big hook - that didn't make it a "snap hook."

I've never said anything like "A severely open face with the hands well forward at impact usually is the sign of a snap-hooker." That person is most likely a slider or a blocker of the golf ball. Almost never is that person going to even draw the ball, let alone hook it. It depends on what "severely" means, but in my book, "severely" > "well", so the face is open more than the path is from the inside.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

So, let me say that my post was meant in a general sense. Very few slicers really leave the face severely open. Some may leave it a bit open, sure, but many don't. Probably more slicers have a shut face or square face. I was wrong to draw such a firm conclusion from it, but I was not wrong to say that that was a general rule. How often do you see a slicer trying, in vain of course, to "let the club release" and "shut the face". It usually just makes it worse.

I agree with all this. Most slicers (maybe almost all of them who have a persistent slice), come over the top. If the over the top move is the problem, then trying to "release the club" will only either make it worse or turn it into a horrific pull.

But those of us who alternate shots left and right (I really don't know how many of us that is, but it's ME), sometimes have a pretty straight swing path, and a club face that is sometimes either early or late. When it's early, I pull-draw, and when it's late, I push-fade. Looking at my last few rounds, and which side I missed the fairway on (golfshot tracks this for me), for me it's about 35/35/30 (early/late/square). -Andrew

[sean_miller]

This is what I call the various hooks - I could be wrong on all counts.

1.) A ball starting fairly straight down the right 1/2 of the fairway then at anywhere from 50 to 150 yards does what seems like a 90 degree turn into the trees on the left - that's a Snap Hook.

2.) A ball starting down the middle or slightly left then diving left, to the ground, possibly trickling into the trees but more likely just clearing the ladies teebox - that's a Duck Hook.

3.) A ball that starts left and makes a big sweeping leftward bend, going very deep in the woods - that's a pull hook.

4.) A ball starting right and bendiing left is a push draw or in more exteme cases is "slinging a hook".


Other than #2 - the Duck Hook - all can be controlled and used to your advantage if you have an idea at what yardage the bend will begin and approximately how many yards left the ball will travel.

[saevel25]

Here is what i see, to start a hook right you really have to have an inside out swing. Were the clubface is pointing right of were you aim, but the clubpath is excessive inside out. I think there are very few who can have this happen. I think what happens more often is that people think there aiming straight when they aim right. I would say to anyone, before you label it a hook or not, get an dowel or use a club, and make sure your lining up so you know what your looking at.

[Shanks A Million]

This is what I call the various hooks - I could be wrong on all counts.

That's the one I'm talking about. Starts decently right, then just dives left.

[jamo]

That's the one I'm talking about. Starts decently right, then just dives left.

sean_miller never said "decently right". He said "fairly straight".