Lesson or Camera?!!

[Unkynd]

I read an article on this site at one point that said the best training aid you can buy is a high speed camera. Based on that, I bought one and started filming my swing. I fixed what I could on my own, but that only got me so far. I posted my swing on this forum, and got some great advice that really helped my swing a lot.

I haven't ever taken a lesson, but I have pre-bought 1 lesson that I haven't used yet. After reading all of the horror stories on here about bad instructors, I figured I'd be better off waiting until I would know if I was being fed a line of bull. Overall, I'd say a $150-$200 camera will get you more value than the 2-3 lessons you could get for that price.

[TN94z]

I would save a little longer and do both.

[wannabe]

I would save a little longer and do both.

Yep, doing both is what you need. You need lessons, and you need to be able to video yourself with a good high speed camera. To begin, I'd first encourage lesssons. But learning golf is a process, and it's a lifetime. To wit, the greatest golfer in the world is working on yet another swing change.

[ghalfaire]

I read an article on this site at one point that said the best training aid you can buy is a high speed camera. Based on that, I bought one and started filming my swing. I fixed what I could on my own, but that only got me so far. I posted my swing on this forum, and got some great advice that really helped my swing a lot.

I don’t know the answer for you. But I’ll share an experience with you. I have over the last couple of years seen my handicap index increase from 14.3 to its’ present 20+ (I know I should correct my settings). I haven’t suffered any physical trauma or any reason for this that I can figure except for the following. For reason unknown to me at this point (actually I do know but am not sharing that part) I decided I needed to develop a more orthodox swing (whatever the hell that is) so I began taking lessons. I had never taken any lessons prior to this, just picked up a club and started playing. I did read a book called the “Inter Game of Golf” that was a mental as opposed to mechanics approach to the game and used this as guide to my “self development”.

I knew that when I began lessons I would get worst for awhile trying to change my swing. But when a couple of weeks ago I found my self in the D player pool for an ABCD tournament I had had enough. I gave the last couple of years some thought as I had worked hard at trying to do as the Pro taught. But it just was not working for me. So yesterday I went back to my old ways and routine. I just visualize the shot, pick an intermediate target, line up, take a stance, and hit the ball without a single swing key other than hit the ball. Well yesterday I shot the best 9 holes I have since I began lessons. Eight over par (par was 37), not great but I struck the ball well for a change and putted well. Couple of bad shot selections kept it from being better plus the course was very wet so had some plugged drives that made the course pretty long for its yardage. Maybe lessons are OK but you need an instructor that is compatible with the way your brain and body work. Not everyone can swing like Ben Hogan and I’m not a mechanical thinker. I am a feel player and need an instructor that teaches that way. I’m going to buy a camera.

[iacas]

Maybe lessons are OK but you need an instructor that is compatible with the way your brain and body work. Not everyone can swing like Ben Hogan and I’m not a mechanical thinker. I am a feel player and need an instructor that teaches that way. I’m going to buy a camera.

In other words, you got a bad instructor. They're out there, and in fact they're probably the majority.

Every great instructor - and I'll say that again EVERY GREAT INSTRUCTOR - is a "feel" instructor. Every last one of them. What do I mean? How can I possibly say this when I know golf instructors love to talk about angles and planes and lines and blah blah blah? Because it's important for every instructor to know those things (and, frankly, too many do not even meet this criteria), but this only makes you "competent." To be good, or great, you have to be able to relay the geometry to a student in a feeling. We can't play golf by numbers. We can't think about geometry when hitting a ball. FEEL is all we have, and, well, you had a bad instructor. Shame, too, because bad instructors give the good or great ones a bad name.

[srjorion]

Every great instructor - and I'll say that again EVERY GREAT INSTRUCTOR - is a "feel" instructor. Every last one of them.

BINGO! Best instructor I have ever had started off telling me this and then making it happen. Every drill he emphasized getting the feel down of what he was trying to get me to accomplish. I routinely go back to the drills he gave me to reinforce (or sometimes bring back) the way it should feel.

[ghalfaire]

Yes, that was really my point. Not that instructors/instructions are bad, just make sure you find one you can communicate with and more important Visa Versa. I am a documented right brain sort of fellow and I need an instructor that can talk in pictures. BTW I like your S&T; videos because they do that. I need to be able to see it in my head to do it. So next instructor I have will be one that can do that as I believe that good instruction and instructors will make you better.

[alomar123]

A camera will help you for a long time. But, depends on how you learn. When I do take a lesson I will make sure it is with someone hands-on. I want them to put me in the positions needed, that way I can feel the way it should be done. Too many instructors just keep a distance and repeat themselves. A camera however can show you what you are doing, therefore you can see where you are in each position. Not to mention you can send those videos in to be analyzed, or just try it yourself.

[srjorion]

Reminds me of a range session where I was near a guy and an instructor. The instructor showed his student one thing and then talked about it for 30 minutes while the student hit balls. It was painful listening to it.

It won't hurt to interview any potential instructors. Get references, ask them how they teach and what plan they would have for you. The good ones will welcome your enthusiasm and desire to improve.

[B-Con]

Depends on your ability to diagnose your current swing. If you looked at someone's swing, can you tell what they're doing wrong?

I just recently (finally) got my swing on video. I saw several glaring problems that synced with what I felt in my swing as well as the flight of the ball. I've taken 3 video sessions of myself so far, and I wouldn't trade it for a lesson. First, I get to actually see what I'm doing. It's one thing to hear "your swing is too flat", it's another thing to see how flat it is. Second, I can go back and replay the swing over and over, a lesson only helps to the extent you remember it two weeks later.

Obviously I wouldn't recommend trying to go pro using only a camera, but what's the point

You probably don't have the ability to diagnose your swing all the way down to a 10 handicap, but that's not where you are right now. The question really is, if you spend $X on a camera, can you find $X of lessons worth of mistakes using that camera?

That's what it boils down to: If you could find just two or three lessons worth of mistakes in your swing by using a camera (between yourself, your friends, this site, etc), get the camera. You'll still get the two/three lessons of benefit, plus you'll have a more permanent tool available.

If you can't diagnose a swing, you can learn how to. If you're not interested in learning how to diagnose a swing, a camera is not for you. I'm not a swing expert (look at my handicap), but I can identify big mistakes. I don't need a pro to tell me those mistakes, I can catch them myself.

[Zeph]

Depends on your ability to diagnose your current swing. If you looked at someone's swing, can you tell what they're doing wrong?

Why would he need to? Of course he will learn if he starts using a camera, but the point is to use online services to get help with the swing. If you post a swing and get stuff pointed out, you can work on it yourself. With a properly placed camera, spotting hand and club path fi. is not rocket science.

[iacas]

Second, I can go back and replay the swing over and over, a lesson only helps to the extent you remember it two weeks later.

That's not necessarily true. For example, we'll give students their videos if they want 'em. We print pictures. We write notes ON the pictures we print, and students are welcome to (and encouraged to) take their own notes too.

Anyone who relies on what they "remember" is a fool asking to be given the same lesson over and over and over again.

You probably don't have the ability to diagnose your swing all the way down to a 10 handicap, but that's not where you are right now. The question really is, if you spend $X on a camera, can you find $X of lessons worth of mistakes using that camera?

With just posting a few videos on this forum I think he could. Good lessons can cost $100 or more per hour.

That's what it boils down to: If you could find just two or three lessons worth of mistakes in your swing by using a camera (between yourself, your friends, this site, etc), get the camera. You'll still get the two/three lessons of benefit, plus you'll have a more permanent tool available.

I agree, and I think that's possible.

[TN94z]

You probably don't have the ability to diagnose your swing all the way down to a 10 handicap, but that's not where you are right now. The question really is, if you spend $X on a camera, can you find $X of lessons worth of mistakes using that camera?

I don't really agree with this. I diagnosed my swing for years and got to a -4.9 on my own. If anything, having a camera may speed his learning curve more than just going to a teacher. It just comes down to the person wanting to learn the swing themselves, or have a teacher tell them every move to make.

If you can't diagnose a swing, you can learn how to. If you're not interested in learning how to diagnose a swing, a camera is not for you.

Exactly. No one knew how to diagnose a swing until they learned the swing. The biggest thing that a camera will give you is what's

"real." What you "feel" in your swing is not always what is "real" in your swing. A camera is a very valuable and justifiable tool IMHO, depending on how far you want your game to go.

[Zeph]

Exactly. No one knew how to diagnose a swing until they learned the swing.

I think Homer Kelley would disagree. In my opinion, it is easier to learn the theory of a good swing than the swing itself.

[TN94z]

I think Homer Kelley would disagree. In my opinion, it is easier to learn the theory of a good swing than the swing itself.

It all boils down to the same thing. You have to learn the "theory" or the swing itself to have a clue about what's going on. Otherwise, I could get my wife to tell me what I am doing wrong.

[B-Con]

Why would he need to? Of course he will learn if he starts using a camera, but the point is to use online services to get help with the swing. If you post a swing and get stuff pointed out, you can work on it yourself. With a properly placed camera, spotting hand and club path fi. is not rocket science.

That was my question to the OP later on. I re-wrote the post half-way through and didn't delete the top two paragraphs, as evidenced by the half-sentence all by itself... I should've made the quick reply box larger as I was writing.

That's not necessarily true. For example, we'll give students their videos if they want 'em. We print pictures. We write notes ON the pictures we print, and students are welcome to (and encouraged to) take their own notes too.

That's awesome. I haven't seen any of the pros that I've looked into do that, so I kind of assumed that if the OP got a lesson it wouldn't be videoed. I have no idea how popular that is. If he can get a lesson with a video, that point is moot.

With just posting a few videos on this forum I think he could. Good lessons can cost $100 or more per hour.

I agree. But since he only had a few posts I didn't know if he was willing to post his video on a forum for strangers, so I just wanted to ask him the questions he should be thinking about.

But since we're talking about it, I think you're right, he has the ability to get a couple lessons of benefit from the camera.

I don't really agree with this. I diagnosed my swing for years and got to a -4.9 on my own. If anything, having a camera may speed his learning curve more than just going to a teacher. It just comes down to the person wanting to learn the swing themselves, or have a teacher tell them every move to make.

I'm not saying that no one can, it depends on the person. But my guess is that the average 18 hdcp golfer couldn't do that. And even if he could, it would almost assuredly be because of what he learned after getting the camera. My main point in that statement was that he shouldn't view the purchase of a camera as the purchase of a pass to a 10 handicap. He will probably need to consult outside sources for swing feedback at some point before then.

[darkhunter139]

I recently had a lesson at golf galaxy and they send you the video via email. The lesson was good and the instructor seemed alright but I think I could have seen all the flaws he pointed out to me simply by comparing my swing with a tour player and posting it on here.

I vote for the video camera.