Davd Pelz talks backspin

[WUTiger]

Shortgame guru Dave Pelz talks about backspin and club grooves in a Nov. 27 Wall Street Journal article entitled, How to Get to Spin Central .

Pelz says the new rules on grooves will hurt mainly amateur golfers. Among other things, he advises us everyday golfers to:
* Dump balls with Surlyn covers for upscale balls with urethane covers (such as ProV1, Callaway HX Tours), which he says will double your wedge spin.
* Keep the grooves of our wedges clean, to maximize spin effect of grooves.
* Stockpile wedges with the larger grooves before the OEMs quit shipping them to golf shops in January.


Article link: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...301668660.html

[iacas]

Pelz, who has built a career on data, offers little to no data in his rebuttal.

Never mind that he's tied in heavily with Jesse Ortiz and the Bobby Jones wedges.
Never mind that he neglects that amateurs have ALWAYS been asking for more spin.
Never mind that most amateurs come up short with shots, so spin ain't helpin' them.
Never mind that spin is virtually identical from the fairway.
Never mind that there are fiscal reasons to play a less expensive ball.
Never mind that the true benefits of spin are seen only with a clean strike and a descending blow, which most amateurs don't produce.

Should I go on?

My final point is the one I've been making all along: spin often comes up and grabs the average amateur when they don't expect it. Their anomaly shot is the one that spins, not the one that doesn't spin. Removing a bit of spin from their short-game shots is going to help them be a little more consistent, not reduce their consistency.

[WUTiger]

...Never mind that most amateurs come up short with shots, so spin ain't helpin' them.

Pelz did concede these two points.

[Danattherock]

Shortgame guru Dave Pelz talks about backspin and club grooves in a Nov. 27 Wall Street Journal article entitled,

I agree with #1 and #2, the third suggestion is BS. What am I going to do, buy 15 wedges and put them away? My choices in clubs changes too much for that. I may not want a 52, 56, 60 combo in the years to come. The equipment is changing and that is what I will chose from in the years to come. I quit using cheap balls a few years back. With the Srixon Z-stars I can count on mid irons hitting the green and stopping. I draw back some wedge shots, but I don't think it helps much. I don't want the ball to back up 20 feet. I do like seeing balls that check, or hit and back up 3-5 feet. -Dan

[WUTiger]

Question on big-groove wedges. Let's say I send in a "zip groove" wedge (or another with super grooves) for refurbishing. Can I still use if the refurb people re-cut the zip grooves?

As long as I don't use it past 2024?

[uttexas]

Question on big-groove wedges. Let's say I send in a "zip groove" wedge (or another with super grooves) for refurbishing. Can I still use if the refurb people re-cut the zip grooves?

I'd say yes, unless you are in an USGA amateur tournament after 2014 has started. I'd check the rules of any tournament you may enter. But, as far as scores toward your H.I. you can keep refurbishing until 2024.

PS--those PINGs are no longer grandfathered in.

[Leftygolfer]

Why would I stock up on wedges. You can send them to a number of companies and get the grooves recut and refinished for less than half the price of a new wedge. I like pelz but I agree with Erik in terms of most players are hurt by spin. Unless you are a decent to good wedge player you have no idea why the ball spined that one time. It is going to have little effect on the game if any.

[Stretch]

The whole groove thing was a ••••ing farrago, first to last. The wankers behind it at the USGA should all be staked out naked on the 17th green at TPC Sawgrass while the entire PGA tour rains balls down on them with whatever ••••ing wedge they please.

[zeg]

I'd say yes, unless you are in an USGA amateur tournament after 2014 has started. I'd check the rules of any tournament you may enter. But, as far as scores toward your H.I. you can keep refurbishing until 2024.

I'm not sure the answer is yes, since it depends on whether refurbishment constitutes "altering" the clubs. From

http://www.usga.org/news/2009/Septem...rding-Grooves/ :

The first step will be to determine the make and model of the club in question and whether the club has been included in the USGA database of clubs. If the club is listed in the database, has not been altered, and there are no other extenuating circumstances or other evidence of non-conformance, the club will be assumed to conform. If a club does not appear in the database or if the club has been altered, officials on site will have the ability to conduct a field test to determine conformance. The field test that the USGA has developed will take less than 10 minutes for a club and no more than 30 minutes for a set of clubs.

(emphasis mine). It seems to me that recutting the grooves would constitute alteration, hence the clubs must now conform to the new rule or be in violation. However, I haven't found a reference to existing rules about refurbishment---one probably exists, so I'd imagine the policy it establishes would stand. Anyone know of such a rule? edit: 4-1b seems to resolve this:

A club that conforms with the Rules when new is deemed to conform after wear through normal use. Any part of a club that has been purposely altered is regarded as new and must, in its altered state, conform with the Rules.

I couldn't find any decision that would allow an exception for an alteration to return to the state at manufacture. Thus, I'm fairly confident that any groove refurbishment would result in a club that is "new" at the time of refurbishment. It is therefore no longer a club manufactured prior to the cutoff, so would have to conform to the new groove specs.

[TourSpoon]

Keep those grooves clean...brilliant.

When it's time to get new wedges I will do just that...there is no stockpiling in my bunker (except those MREs, canned goods, ammo, etc. for when the world ends in 2012).

[max power]

I've had enough Pelz. He's wrong on this, and IMO he's wrong when he advocates that amateurs should use 4 or 5 wedges.

[Leftygolfer]

I've had enough Pelz. He's wrong on this, and IMO he's wrong when he advocates that amateurs should use 4 or 5 wedges.

That is a different conversation. I've learned alot from the short game and putting bible. I've carried 5 wedges and that was a bit overkill. I have a hard time taking 7 yards off a 4 iron but I can do that with a GW pretty easily and predictably.

[max power]

That is a different conversation. I've learned alot from the short game and putting bible. I've carried 5 wedges and that was a bit overkill. I have a hard time taking 7 yards off a 4 iron but I can do that with a GW pretty easily and predictably.

You have the 775s, which I played last year, and the PW is 45*. I don't consider that a wedge-it's a 45* iron. If you're carrying a GW, a 58*, and a 64*-I consider that to be 3 wedges.

[The Recreational Golfer]

I suppose I would be upset by the new groove rules if I could hit that Lee Trevino low-flying chip that looks like it got skulled, but hits the green twice and stops on a dime. Since I can't, and while I can get spin around the green, it's not tons, I really don't think I'm going to see a game-changing difference when the grooves wear out and I have to get a new wedge.

[Chief Broom]

If the demand exists for box grooves on irons in 2011 and beyond manufacturers will provide clubs with those grooves. They won't conform to the rules but most golf that is played doesn't conform the the rules anyway.

[TourSpoon]

You have the 775s, which I played last year, and the PW is 45*. I don't consider that a wedge-it's a 45* iron. If you're carrying a GW, a 58*, and a 64*-I consider that to be 3 wedges.

In my set that is called a 9 iron...

[max power]

In my set that is called a 9 iron...

Well, your 9 iron is actually 43*, but I know what you're saying. My MacGregors and Nikes are both 43* 9 iron and 47* PW. But even with those sets I use 3 wedges (PW, GW, SW/LW), maybe 4 on a day the course specifically demands a SW and a LW.

[sean_miller]

Well, your 9 iron is actually 43*, but I know what you're saying. My MacGregors and Nikes are both 43* 9 iron and 47* PW. But even with those sets I use 3 wedges (PW, GW, SW/LW), maybe 4 on a day the course specifically demands a SW and a LW.

The typical PW is bit different shape than a 9-iron. Not a lot, but it is different. Probably one reason why I've been dropping them in favour of a weak 9 and a strong GW. Of all the sets of irons I've ever owned, only 1 set had a pitching wedge (or 10 iron) that was essentially the same club as a 9-iron. The matching wedge from my old Hogan Apex PCs (E) is basically a 48 degree 9-iron. Edit: actually my Cleveland TA1 PW is pretty close - it's a keeper.