My Swing (Paul V)

[Paul V]

I was going to title this thread "My swing is a WRECK!  Super frustrated... help?" but wanted to abide to the rules since this is basically asking about my swing...

JUST UPLOADED VIDEOS!

8-iron DTL




6-iron DTL




6-iron FO




A little background..  I'm 23.  I used to golf a ton in the summer when I was like 12-16, but since then its been much more spotty, like 5-10 rounds a year on average with a few trips to the range.  I've taken a couple lessons over the years, but my swing is pretty much entirely self-taught.  When I was younger I didn't hit it very far (obviously) and typically would just play a consistent slice off the tee.  I used to hit my irons very straight.  I never attempted to create divots, just tried to skim the grass.  I also used the baseball grip.  My chipping/putting and short-game feel has always been at the least solid.

Fast forward to about 2 years ago.  I decided I wanted to commit to re-learning a more proper golf swing.  I switched to the overlap grip (which now feels normal) and started trying to strike down on the ball and create a small divot after contact.  I've watched some videos to look for hip rotation, wrists, weight shift, etc..

Anyways, here are a few aspects of my swing I'm dealing with right now:

-I rarely slice anymore, my irons sometimes draw (and sometimes hook a lot)
-I seem to have an inside-out swing, which I cannot for the life of me correct
-My divots always point a good 10-15 degrees to the right
-My divots always seem to slope away from me.  If you were looking DTL, the right edge of the divot would be much deeper than the left side.  When I set up to the ball, the club is flat on the ground, but when I strike it, the toe is tilting down for some reason.
-Generally my irons do one of two things.  They either are a push (no spin) or a straight-draw.  This is frustrating because I usually miss the green either left or right.  If instead I attempt to play for, say, the straight-draw (by aiming right) but instead push it, then I miss BADLY obviously.

Overall my swing just feels totally out of whack, and has for a while.  I can't even really tell what to work on.  Please help!!

[canadianpro]

Hard to comment without a video...you definitely want an inside/out swing path and it is possible you have the ball played too far back in your stance. this would create divots aimed right. Most golfers raise the handle of the club at impact....again, video would help to determine whether you should get the lies checked on your irons. It is possible you may need to have them bent more upright.

Ball flight laws below

[iacas]

You might have overdone your "slice fixes" to the point where you're not swinging very upright (toe deep divots) and too much inside to out.

Any video is better than none, even if it's a cell phone version.

[Paul V]

Thanks.  Can you offer any advice on ball placement?  I generally go with middle-of-stance for short irons, slightly forward for mid irons, slightly more forward for long irons, and eventually to driver which is basically at my front foot.

[Paul V]

JUST UPLOADED VIDEOS (see original post)

Thank you so much for watching/commenting

[jpd5184]

here's what i see.

-to much lower body movement, no real drive into the ball

-keep you head up, see you when you rotate you shoulder is over your chin? you shoulder should be under your chin.

[saevel25]

If i had to say anything, i think you stand way to close to the ball..

Also were are you aiming, you have the camera pointed at that flag, but your feet look like they point to the flag on the left? Not sure if this is throwing off were you think you are hitting the ball.

Your grip is extremely strong in the right hand, its almost underneath the club.

I would probably say, get your shoudler's out near your toes, this will make you have to stick your butt out more to get better balance, or you'll be on your toes at address. This will let your hands hang naturally bellow your shoulders with out them comming near your hips. From there you have more options in your backswing, i found if you have your hands to close its hard to get them deeper because the fear of hitting the hip. This might also cause you to loose your tush line, as i heard it called, were your butt comes closer to the ball. If it didn't you would probably hit your leg with your hands as your hips.

[JetFan1983]

Just a couple suggestions to add to the thread:

Your shoulders are turning very level. You can see here that the plane line wouldn't reach the ground for a good twenty or so feet away from where you're standing. This is part of the reason you have a little bit of a sway on the backswing. If you turn your shoulders more downward and allow your trail leg to lose some of its flex, you should be able to make a more centered turn, eliminating the sway and making your swing less timing dependent.

I'm using Tiger Woods here as an example of a player who turns his shoulders steep enough while also allowing his trail leg to lose some of its flex to facilitate this more centered turn. It's his old swing from August 2007. You can see the plane line reaches the ground much closer to where he's standing when compared to your plane line.

There's also some rolling of the wrists during your takeaway that you could eliminate as well.

[jpd5184]

watch this, it might help you with your alignment.

http://www.pgatour.com/video/r/instruction/swing_coaches/2010/11/17/instr_foley_alignment_dotcom295.pgatour/index.html

[JetFan1983]

Here are some more examples of players who 1) turn their shoulders steeper than you and 2) reduce the flex in the knee of their trail leg. I thought perhaps I should include more than just one example.

G-Mac with a driver here. The golfer will naturally have a flatter, more around the body swing with the longer clubs, but as you can see, his shoulders are steeper here than you using a six iron.

Matt Kuchar -- here with an iron at Augusta -- has one of the flattest swings on tour, and as you can see, even his shoulders are steeper than yours.

Freddie is using a 3-wood here.

JB Holmes

Despite a lot of differences in each of these four swings, they are all fairly consistent in terms of turning their shoulders on a steeper plane and allowing their trail leg to lose some of the flex in the knee it had at address.

[Paul V]

I really appreciate all the comments so far

I totally agree upon watching the videos that i'm standing far too upright.  This is probably a result of standing too close to the ball, which is then causing the issue of flat shoulders.  I'm not sure I agree (or understand) about the rolling of wrists, I watched some slow motion videos and the face of my club seems to be matching that of other swings during takeaway.

Alignment:
I am indeed "aiming" for the flag in the center of the video, but I am aware I'm pointed like 15 degrees left of that.  This is because I seem to push my irons no matter what.  My divots always point right of my alignment, so if I try to "square" the club face with my alignment I end up with a shot that starts straight but hooks badly left.  My previous couple of range sessions I was focusing very hard on swinging straight (inside-square-inside).  I would lay a club on the ground towards my target a bit in front of my toes to make sure my feet/body was lined up.  Then I tried for hours to hit straight shots, with absolutely no success.  The only way I could actually hit my target was to turn the club face in just a tad (compared to the swing) which resulted in a smaller push, and a slight draw that brought it back to target.  Of course this was inconsistent.  As I mentioned in my OP, the thing I'm struggling with most is correcting this strong inside-out swing.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by Paul V

I'm not sure I agree (or understand) about the rolling of wrists, I watched some slow motion videos and the face of my club seems to be matching that of other swings during takeaway.

Actually, you might be right about that. I was watching your swing only very quickly earlier this morning and thought I saw a more pronounced rolling of the wrists in the takeaway. Sorry about that. The stuff I was saying about your shoulders and trail leg I still stand by though.

I'm hesitant to continue giving tips since I'm not an instructor, but hopefully this helps.

1) On the Face-on view 6-iron, you could move the ball more forward in your stance so you're impacting the ball later in the arc. Having a steeper and more centered shoulder turn will help you have confidence in a slightly more forward ball position I think.

2) Your left arm is separating from your torso on the through-swing and you're swinging too vertically to the finish.

I drew a couple yellow lines to show your left arm separating. It needs to stay connected to your body. A good drill to try is to swing for an entire range session or practice round with a tee under each armpit. Don't let the tees fall out. This should keep you on a more circular arc around the body and stop the hook.

This raises the butt end of the shaft and shoots the swing path out to the right.

You can see in this example how the player's arms and and club shaft appear from the DTL view below the left shoulder. His left arm isn't separating from his torso on the through swing.

[walk18]

Originally Posted by Paul V

I'm not sure I agree (or understand) about the rolling of wrists, I watched some slow motion videos and the face of my club seems to be matching that of other swings during takeaway.

You are rolling the wrists and it's throwing you off plane. At this point in the backswing, you can see your clubhead is inside the hands. You want to keep the hands and club on plane like on the right. Steeper shoulders may help you do this.

[johnthejoiner]

I personally think you would be better to copy this great man, i think he managed to win a couple of small tournaments with a flatter shoulder plane. Get your hands higher in your back swing, try hitting a ball with the club in your right hand only and you'll see how high your hand will be. If your going to give this a go, tell me how you got on. And stop your head swaying from side to side through your whole swing

[PaulMVR]

Hey my name's Paul V. and I'm 23 too.... and I just posted a thread w/video of my swing.